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Is the Senate bill fiscally responsible?

Matt Yglesias writes:

The bill contains provisions that have front-loaded positive impacts on the deficit and also have provisions that have back-loaded positive impacts on the deficit. The bill, rather intelligently, seems to balance this out well leading to net deficit reductions in the short-, medium-, and long-terms. The bill by no means solves the considerable long-term fiscal challenges to the United States, but it does improve the situation. If people want to say that on balance they think the bill is a bad idea, that’s fine, but to do so is to oppose what’s far-and-away the most politically realistic way to enact non-trivial long- and medium-term deficit reduction in the 111th Congress.

I should coin a new MR term: the retreat into the relative.  As I understand it, the apparently fiscally responsible portions of the bill come from a) eventual cuts in Medicare spending, and b) rising taxes on some health insurance plans and they come later of course.  Few Congressional representatives are willing to do these things today, so should we predict they will be done in the future?  (The same problem plagues Waxman-Markey, by the way, so these back and forth rhetorical debates are becoming quite common.)  In my view, policies structured in this manner are simply another way of doing deficit spending.

To quote Matt, he writes of: "the most politically realistic way...to enact...deficit reduction."  That sounds powerful.  and in fact I agree with his claim as it is worded.  But if all the politically realistic options make our fiscal position worse rather than better (Congress likes to spend money more than it likes to inflict pain on voters)...well, this bill still makes the deficit problem worse.  Even it is the best of the realistic worsening options.  We should be wary of the retreat into the relative because all the options may be bad.  Nor should the phrase "building a framework" be translated into anything but "we are unwilling to do this now or anytime soon and thus we are engaging in more de facto deficit spending."

The fact that Republicans can (correctly) be blamed for making the bill worse does not constitute an argument that the current bill will make things, in fiscal terms, better. 

Citing inconsistencies of bill opponents ("but he didn't scream loud enough about [fill in the blank] way back when") does not help on this score either.

Another argument I have seen in MR comments is: if we can't solve this health care costs problem it won't matter, therefore we can spend more without making the problem in net terms worse.  That's a fallacy and you would never apply such reasoning while driving over the speed limit ("I'll accelerate right now, after all at some point I've got to slow down anyway.")  Think of it as a kind of Zen-like, reverse Sorites ploy: "It is adding stones which takes a pile away."  Or "Let us add stones.  The pile must disappear in any case."

Here is a numerical style guide (SG) for identifying future arguments in these veins, because they will recur when you have an activist government which wants to be very popular, combined with an under-educated, short-term oriented citizenry:

SG1. The retreat into the relative: "All the other options are even worse."

SG2. Blame the Republicans: "They made the bill bad, not us."

SG3. The critic is evil or inconsistent: "Your views are inconsistent, or you are morally questionable, so I can dismiss your worries."

From now on in the MR comments section you can just cite the appropriate number and spare yourself carpal tunnel syndrome. 

Addendum: Megan McArdle adds relevant comments and also here.

Posted by Tyler Cowen on November 21, 2009 at 04:37 AM in Current Affairs, Medicine | Permalink

Comments

I am confused by this post. This bill reduces the deficit in the short term, in part by delaying benefits while instituting some of the taxes earlier. Isn't that exactly the opposite of your complaint, that it gives away goodies today but promises future pain?

The CBO puts it this way: it "generate[s] net receipts for the government in the initial years when total premiums would exceed total benefit payments."

Posted by: Alex F at Nov 21, 2009 5:02:33 AM

The probability that Republicans will win a majority in the House of Representatives is surely something to consider. How eager will the young guns be to act as the Democrats' hatchet men against taxpayers and the retired when it comes to this promised deficit-reduction Elysia?

Posted by: Millian at Nov 21, 2009 5:24:36 AM

This post seems like sour grapes (SG for a different variety). Both House and Senate bills are scored by the CBO as reducing the deficit in the first 10 years, and then again by more in the following years. The Obama administration keeps talking about laying a "new foundation" - well expanded coverage with built-in cost controls as part of a grand bargain lays a good foundation for future incremental fixes.

Should we have gone down a VAT sponsored voucher a la Ezekiel Emmanuel that blows up Medicare and Medicaid? Probably. But there are benefits to both citizens, businesses, and the deficit in either version of HCR bill currently up.

So here is the addition:
SG4. The critic is upset about expanding health care coverage and will suffer from "sour grape syndrome" (SGS) and attack even when the bills offer something of value; albeit in a slower and methodical manner than a revolution in health care could bring.

Posted by: Alex C. at Nov 21, 2009 5:33:25 AM

Taxes are not de facto fiscal responsibility. I'm not even talking about the Laffer sense. Taxes are always a cost. Sometimes they are a necessary cost, but only rarely. Half the people think they are a benefit. When the other half starts to see them as a benefit, that won't be a good thing.

Is the "net benefit" of $72B (Ha) going to be spent on something that reduces the cost of long-term care? (Haha)

Posted by: Andrew at Nov 21, 2009 6:26:56 AM

''So here is the addition:
SG4. The critic is upset about expanding health care coverage and will suffer from "sour grape syndrome"''

What is it that you believe makes the critic "upset about expanding health care coverage" in the first place?

Posted by: BKarn at Nov 21, 2009 6:37:53 AM

The report I saw today on CNN (I was stuck in a hotel lobby) stated that the bill would still leave about 30 million people uninsured, but with most of those being illegal aliens. That was from the same "news" source that says there only appr. 7-8 million illegals in the United States.

Posted by: credit union at Nov 21, 2009 7:42:10 AM

So all this time we've been working on the symptom and not the cause? This would seem to be what we really need to fix, "an activist government which wants to be very popular, combined with an under-educated, short-term oriented citizenry."

But how?

Posted by: Jeremy R. Shown at Nov 21, 2009 8:18:00 AM

I think this is a little unfair on the liberals. As even David Frum will candidly admit the Republicans have been entirely destructive in this process. Rather than trying to get the bill to reflect their priorities they have engaged in bad-faith attacks in a futile attempt to destroy the bill. It is politicking of the worst kind and makes it *very* get rational legislation. This is not a small factor in the irrational product we see.

Posted by: Chris Dornan at Nov 21, 2009 8:48:12 AM

In defense of SG1: when arguing for a pragmatic solution, noting that X is the best of all realistic options* IS a valid argument. One can consistently concede that X is on net a bad option and still argue that we should adopt X because all options are on net bad and X is the least bad. (As they say in the service, "You must always choose the lesser of two weevils!")

* i.e., possible options given a particular political economy

Posted by: Neal at Nov 21, 2009 9:24:43 AM

Your baseline assumption seems to be that there should not be increases in government spending. With that assumption, any increase in spending is irresponsible. My baseline is a little different, though reaching your goal would be nice. At this point, after years of deficit spending, I would like to take the initial step of paying for what we spend. In that sense, this bill would be seen as fiscally responsible. I believe the second order effects of health care reform will be higher than you appear to believe, but there is inadequate data to be sure either way. The debate should center around what we are getting for what we spend.

Steve

Posted by: Ralph at Nov 21, 2009 9:52:29 AM

No, what they should have done is cut taxes by 10%, enact the cut for ten years so that CBO doesn't score it because in the 11th year taxes increase, run a deficit for ten years, and shove it into the next generation.

Oh, we did that already.

Nevermind.

Posted by: Bill at Nov 21, 2009 10:23:58 AM

Bill,

The problem wasn't tax cuts, the problem was wars, which neither of your false dichotomy parties opposed to any degree.

The Republicans were gung ho for it and the Dems were the Republicans prison bi---es.

Noone from the Bush administration claimed to be fiscally responsible while the Dems were whining about tax cuts. The only thing I ever heard from Dems about fiscal responsibility wrt wars was that taxes should be raised and a draft instituted to make sure we all share in the costs.

Posted by: Andrew at Nov 21, 2009 10:32:16 AM

I put a political science based defense of the fiscal responsibility of the Senate Bill up on my blog, it doesn't use the arguments raised above, so I can summarize it here.

1) In terms of vote counts, it is much easier to hold the line on automatic cost savings than to pass new bills that implement cost savings.
2) Expensive health plans do not have a naturally well organized constituency to defend them, this is not true of the lobby preventing Medicare automatic cuts.
3) Democrats, admittedly in combination with good economic times, have balanced the budget before. Universal coverage is a middle class issue, but many of the other cost drivers have more impact on the poor. Once universality is implemented, the impulse to raise the bronze plan is unlikely to outweigh the impulse to be depicted in the media as fiscally responsible. I'd prefer a Congress that gave additional subsidies and restored the estate tax, but we can't always get what we want.
4) With universal health care, raising the eligibility age, with a grandfather clause, of Medicare will likely be achievable.
5) Conceded that the mammogram fight looks bad for us, but Yglesias and Klein are both willing to stand up for comparative effectiveness reviews. Also, breast cancer research advocates are probably the best organized lobby out there, the uproar isn't the typical case.

Posted by: Greg Sanders at Nov 21, 2009 10:53:46 AM

What is so bad about SG1? SG1 is literally the best option as I would include doing nothing as among the options. Our political system and polity are dysfunctional, so our options are suboptimal. When (if?) our fiscal predicament worsens, it may be possible to make harder choices.

Posted by: matt wilbert at Nov 21, 2009 11:17:18 AM

The bill is a sham. They know the numbers are unrealistic, the assumptions unworkable. The just want to create the structure convinced that once in place, like most government programs, it will be impossible to undue.

Promise them anything, get it passed, take credit, let others make the tough budget choices.

Read Dr Flier with thanks to the Mankiw blog that had the link
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704431804574539581994054014.html

Posted by: DanC at Nov 21, 2009 11:22:51 AM

I've become very disillusioned with the discussions of health care reform on this blog. Tyler is about as fair as balanced as Fox News on this issue, and clearly doesn't think there's anything substantially unfair about the way health care in this country is provided. Unlike the rest of MR, the health care posts have ceased to be objective and have denerated into Bill O'Reilly talking points. I'll be skipping health care posts here henceforth.

Posted by: anonymous at Nov 21, 2009 11:40:24 AM

This is a really great post, Tyler.

Posted by: Ryan at Nov 21, 2009 11:55:18 AM

IMO the question is:

Will this health care bill decrease costs to the country?

There are some who argue, I think, that it does not matter, taxes are bad. They are willing to pay more (infinitely more?) for a non-government solution than to lose what they perceive as their liberty (in the form of mandated health care and higher taxes). They believe that the only fair share is the share that they willingly pay.

I don't know the answer. But to say that this health care bill is going to cost an extra $x/year for the government is disingenous.

Also, there are plenty of good reasons for better health care. For one, perhaps we will have a fitter nation, which will increase productivity and increase the number of our kids that are eligible for the military.

At the very least, I would like to see nationalized health care for ALL children and catastrophic health care for adults (say, costs above $30,000 per year).

Tyler, are you against expanding programs like CHIPS to all children?

Posted by: Allan at Nov 21, 2009 12:42:19 PM

Given that TC agrees that this option is better than any other option that could be passed, and that it will still result in increase the deficit in the long term, should we conclude that it is impossible for the government to reign in deficit spending on health care?

If you believe (like I do) that health care spending costs will eventually come to dominate consumer spending unless a major overhaul of the delivery and payment systems is done, does this mean our government is doomed to fiscal insolvency in the long run?

I've got to say, this is about the most pessimistic post I've ever read on this site.

Posted by: mravery at Nov 21, 2009 1:11:26 PM

So we are going to raise taxes on employer-based insurance, dump the money into the general fund and sell it on the basis of fiscal responsibility because it reduces the deficit by $72B over 10 years.

And while the nation is captivated with the debate, the TARP money is running like water. This is truly outstanding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversight_of_the_Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program#Government_officials_overseeing_bailout_don.27t_know_how_it.27s_being_spent

Posted by: Andrew at Nov 21, 2009 1:11:54 PM

RE: BKarn & SG4 - I wish I knew - I certainly don't see why some people are ideologically opposed to expanding coverage.

But as anonymous posted at 11:40, this blog is definitely in the sour grapes realm of HCR. I appreciated an earlier post with actual solutions to some of the policy problems; but denigrating the current bills as they 1) do account for how they are paid for (unlike Medicare Part D), 2) reduce the deficit per CBO, and 3) are within the realm of the possible for reform I fail to see the need for such negativity.

This reform will incrementally do quite a bit of good by expanding coverage, enacting consumer protections, and working on the framework/infrastructure/foundation/pick your metaphor that might really bend the cost curve.

That chestnut that has been going around this year really is true: don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Posted by: Alex C. at Nov 21, 2009 1:15:25 PM

RE: BKarn & SG4 - I wish I knew - I certainly don't see why some people are ideologically opposed to expanding coverage.

But as anonymous posted at 11:40, this blog is definitely in the sour grapes realm of HCR. I appreciated an earlier post with actual solutions to some of the policy problems; but denigrating the current bills as they 1) do account for how they are paid for (unlike Medicare Part D), 2) reduce the deficit per CBO, and 3) are within the realm of the possible for reform I fail to see the need for such negativity.

This reform will incrementally do quite a bit of good by expanding coverage, enacting consumer protections, and working on the framework/infrastructure/foundation/pick your metaphor that might really bend the cost curve.

That chestnut that has been going around this year really is true: don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Posted by: Alex C. at Nov 21, 2009 1:18:14 PM

It doesn't seem like anything will please Tyler. If no tax increase is credible, then there can be no new spending. It's way beyond PAYGO, it's just anti-spending.

Posted by: calieconomist at Nov 21, 2009 1:43:32 PM

I like Tyler's analysis in the abstract, but I also have to agree that this post is overly negative. You can't make simple extrapolations, either about economic growth or about political will to make sensible decisions.

Perhaps we should spend more energy decrying the trillions of spending in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention the healthcare costs and productivity losses of tens of thousands of veterans coming back with severe injuries and/or PTSD. That's one area where I wish more libertarians would step up - have to give David Henderson credit for that.

Posted by: Greg at Nov 21, 2009 2:31:48 PM

I'll join with the consensus that this is a poor argument. As Greg Sanders notes:

"In terms of vote counts, it is much easier to hold the line on automatic cost savings than to pass new bills that implement cost savings."

and

"Democrats, admittedly in combination with good economic times, have balanced the budget before."

Tyler Cowen's argument seems to be:

This bill will improve matters, but the nature of the changes gives future Congresses a strong incentive to make the problem worse either by lowering taxes or increasing spending. Without these changes, future Congresses would have less of an incentive to make the problem worse. Therefore, we shouldn't make things better now.

While technically not illogical, this seems like a big stretch.

Also, it is a change from previous posts (http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2009/11/is-this-why-the-senate-bill-has-an-ok-cbo-rating.html) where Tyler Cowen argued:

This bill will make things worse.

This seems to me to significantly lower Tyler Cowen's credibility as an open-minded thinker on health care reform. Why is it so hard for libertarians to admit that Democratic leaders are fiscally responsible?

Posted by: David C at Nov 21, 2009 3:39:35 PM

"Why is it so hard for libertarians to admit that Democratic leaders are fiscally responsible"

It wouldn't be if they were. The reason we are here is because they are not. Making another program not pay for itself (even if by running surpluses into the "lock box" only to default later) is not an improvement. It's the same thing all over again.

I can't speak for him, but all Tyler is doing is responding to the selling points on their own terms. I imagine all that has to be done is to advertise it as what it is, a tax on the in nominal earner's medical insurance to shift medical expenses to the poor.

Beyond that, you people are insane. At some point the planet is not going to want to throw money at us at 0%. At that point it will be too late to listen.

Posted by: Andrew at Nov 21, 2009 4:16:53 PM

SG1 and SG2. Thanks Tyler for saving me keystrokes!

Posted by: azmyth at Nov 21, 2009 5:15:12 PM

If part of the problem is over insurance then the problem is starting to be addressed as businesses are providing less insurance and individuals are buying less insurance.

Posted by: floccina at Nov 21, 2009 6:41:55 PM

SG5. We are doomed.

Posted by: anon at Nov 21, 2009 6:49:06 PM

SG6. WE are fine. Our children and grandchildren are doomed.

Posted by: anon at Nov 21, 2009 6:56:50 PM

Andrew,

I am not a liberal.

The reason we are here is because the last President created these deficit problems, not because of the sitting President.

The last Democratic President solved the deficit problems created by his Republican predecessors.

Does this bill do enough? No.

Does it reduce the deficit? Yes.

The above two answers are based on the highest quality and most independent analysis of the bill out there, the CBO's.

Does it shift medical costs to the poor? That's a dubious assertion for which you provide no evidence to back up.

Is it likely it will improve in the committee to reconcile differences between legislatures? Very, considering that it is then and only then that the President and his team of economists will really make their presence known. I have more faith in the President than Congress. I think Tyler Cowen does too: http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2009/04/interview-with-obama.html

Posted by: David C at Nov 21, 2009 8:18:30 PM

Does anyone actually care if this bill is deficit neutral or not? It would seem to me that the fiscal implication are the least of worries when it comes to a health care bill. I'm more concerned with how much it will actually cost (not how much it costs the abstract construct we call government, but how much it will cost individuals on the aggregate). Secondary to cost, will it actually accomplish any of the things it intends; what exactly are the agreed upon goals of a health care bill? Are we trying to address costs of health care, portability, access, quality, or is the goal to help the government collect money (which it issues in the first place by the way)?

Posted by: Ryan Vann at Nov 21, 2009 8:33:48 PM

Also, what has Stargate have to do with anything?

Posted by: Ryan Vann at Nov 21, 2009 8:39:43 PM

This says what I was trying to say better than I did:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/11/you_cant_cut_the_deficit_witho.html

Posted by: Alex C. at Nov 21, 2009 9:34:57 PM

All of you anonymouses who are threatening to stop reading the healthcare section of MR: Why should we think your stated threat is credible?

And, if it's credible, why do you think this "I'm going to hold my breath until I turn blue" threat will persuade anyone (especially Tyler) to change his/her position?

And, if it's credible AND you believe it will influence the strategy, how do you believe that strategy change can possibly benefit you?

Quoth Napoleon, "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

Posted by: SkepticalProf at Nov 21, 2009 11:04:37 PM

I've become very disillusioned with the discussions of health care reform on this blog. Tyler is about as fair as balanced as Fox News on this issue, and clearly doesn't think there's anything substantially unfair about the way health care in this country is provided.

You know, there is another little, very small, niggling problem with "the healthcare bill" other than its impact on the deficit or gdp.

And that very small, little niggling matter is LIBERTY.

The more the government is involved in my personal life, the less LIBERTY I and my fellow citizens have.

The way I see it, my LIBERTY is a lot more important than your new definitions of "fairness" and your necessary attempts to enforce it using state sanctioned violence and coercion.

Sorry.

But you big government small liberty folks keep pushing.

This isn't Europe. There are many ways for those who value LIBERTY and mistrust the state and its monopoly on violence to fight back - non violently, quietly, and yet effectively.

And you might find that many folks who are laying all the golden eggs decide to find ways to not do so for you lovers of big government small liberty "fairness".

Be careful of the edifice you are building and the assumptions you are making. You might find you built a very large structure on sand. Your public employees and state owned enterprises and central bank and treasury do not create wealth, even if they give you power.

You might be surprised to find that there are many people in this country who do not want to give up any more of their LIBERTY for your state-coerced "fairness".

And not all of them are attending tea parties or listening to talk radio.

Just sayin.

Posted by: anon at Nov 21, 2009 11:58:38 PM

Dear anon:

"Liberty" is not defined by how little the government interferes in your life, "liberty" is defined by the size of your budget constraints. When you transfer money from a rich person to a poor person, you are transferring options and hence liberty.

Just sayin.

Love,
Neal

Posted by: Neal at Nov 22, 2009 12:13:25 AM

Neal, keep building that edifice on sand.

And make sure you use the violence of the state to enforce your definition of "liberty," because you are going to be required to do that to enforce your vision of wealth transfer.

Your jails are not big enough, and your economy is not strong enough.

Your "liberty" is too small for too many Americans.

Keep building that edifice on sand. Your edifice will fall.

Because there are many people like me for whom LIBERTY is more important than your definitions of "fairness" and the violence of your state that will be required to enforce it.

Posted by: anon at Nov 22, 2009 12:39:05 AM

Neal, your state coercion will not work. Do you believe this is merely about wealth transfer, merely about your state violence?

How do you force people to work? How will you mandate creativity and innovation? How do you push on a string?

See, e.g., this from the McArdle piece:

What passes for delivery reform consists mostly of slashing reimbursement rates to providers, and then putting Medicare Advantage on the same plan. There are two problems with this. The first is that there's no reason to believe that providers will find ways to efficiently provide care at the new, lower rates, rather than just stop serving Medicare patients. That was the core point of the recent report from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services--and though a lot of bloggers developed sudden suspicions about the integrity of government reports, in fact, this pretty much jibes with the warnings that Doug Elmendorf has been issuing, and also, reality. There are already shortages of geriatricians which can be substantially attributed to the fact that Medicare has ensured it is one of the lowest-paid specialties. When the guy who oversees your provider payments says that your new payment scheme is probably going to lead to providers dropping out of your program, you need to take that seriously.

You see Neal, your edifice is already crumbling. Unless you are thinking of importing all the free health care workers from Cuba.

Or unless there are millions like you Neal, all strong, all smart and hardworking, all for the good of your state and your "fairness".

Because those of us who want LIBERTY will not be working with or for you. Neal, you and your ilk are the ultimate "bad boss".

We might be in your jails, we might be working far less, who knows, we may even oppose you by subtly undermining your edifice, making sure the water washes away the sand. All without using any of your state violence and coercion.

And you will not necessarily know which people who value LIBERTY are. They may work quietly. Or they may be loud.

But there are more of us who value LIBERTY than you think. And we are not all attending tea parties. We are not all listening to talk radio. We do not all belong to a political party.

We may be your neighbor. We may be your friend.

Those of us who value LIBERTY are not all loud, we are not necessarily talking about it. You may know me and not even know it.

Those of use who love LIBERTY are all over this country. Lovers of LIBERTY have been in America for a long time, and lovers of LIBERTY will be in America for a long time.

Posted by: anon at Nov 22, 2009 1:12:55 AM

David C asks: "Why is it so hard for libertarians to admit that Democratic leaders are fiscally responsible?"
Because you're wrong David: the Democrats never brought the deficit down, the Republican congress did it:
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/20/us/clinton-gingrich-and-dole-pledge-a-deal-on-budget.html?pagewanted=all

Posted by: Badger at Nov 22, 2009 1:55:40 AM

Alan Greenspan, the libertarian whipping post, is credited (at least partially, and specifically in Bob Woodward's book "The Maestro") with helping convince Clinton to work to balance the budget. Most of the credit of course goes to the luck of having record tax receipts from a bubble economy that the gov't got used to. So, they just didn't increase spending as fast as the money rolled in, which led to the deficits when the money stopped rolling in.

What I said was it shifts medical services from the high earners (nominal) to the poor by taxing the high premium ("Cadillac" of all monikers) insurance plans. I think Tyler's point is similar to mine, if you reduce the deficit in a way that really probably doesn't just to institute another boon to the general fund in the short-term, then that is not fiscal responsibility. It is the opposite.

Posted by: Andrew at Nov 22, 2009 5:30:22 AM

Dear anon,

You go on and on about it, but you haven't even bothered telling us what LIBERTY is. I think you don't even know.

Your dearest critic,
Neal

Posted by: Neal at Nov 22, 2009 5:33:50 AM

Another thought, this bill must really not be that great if they are selling it as a deficit reduction plan.

The shifting rationale really is reminiscent of the justifications for the Iraq war. I was thinking this before McArdle alluded to it.

Maybe they are really sophisticated dealing with 'political realities' or maybe they are just lame opportunists. You know what my money is on.

Posted by: Andrew at Nov 22, 2009 5:37:50 AM

Liberty is the constant pursuit of minimal constraints, within a framework of property rights, right to the point those constraints impose constraints on others.

Anyway,

http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/downchart_gr.php?year=1991_2014&view=1&expand=&units=b&fy=fy10&chart=10-fed_40-fed_G0-total&bar=1&stack=1&size=m&title=&state=US&color=c&local=s

Clinton didn't really cut spending, income taxes nearly tripled during his tenure. Maybe he "contained" it, the principled statesman and bullwark against unbridled populism that he was. Maybe he was fiscally responsible, but we can't know. My feeling is that it's more likely he(we) constructed a success story around the fact that they couldn't increase spending fast enough. Bush rectified that problem.

There is nothing like a war or two to waste money and have nothing to show for it. And check out the massive green bars on the right. There is nothing like booming finances to provide the hubris required to embark on multiple fronts. Clinton deserves some credit for the stability he provided the economy, but so does political gridlock.

I never met a tax cut I didn't like because I know what to do with the money. I don't really care about government deficits, not that people who care about the government shouldn't care, they should, it's just not me. So, if I had to impugn the Bush cuts for anything it was that they were all of an instant and dumped money into the hands of people with no plan for it, so they dumped cash into the only safe investment in a low-interest rate environment: houses.

I know we are crazy, but it seems like an Austrian perspective would be to make sure that huge green bar is being spent on intelligent projects before you start dinking around with a small fraction of it to start new programs and distracting any oversight you might have had. So, was it a 'political reality' that Obama just had to ram this through this year to meet the public outcry for a medical services program? Or, is it opportunism? Is this really the most efficient way to get a deficit reduction passed?

Wouldn't the best way to reduce the deficit be to reduce the deficit, or at least make sure the money is being spent wisely so we get some reasonable return? Are they really tricking voters into reducing the deficit under cover of the medical reform they are clamoring for?

Posted by: Andrew at Nov 22, 2009 6:34:52 AM

Do we have to do this again?

1. The president does not control the budget. Congress and long-settled policy questions do. At best, the president can blow it and ask for more or attempt to spend below the authorization (which will be characterized by plaintiffs as "the mandate" in the ensuing suit) but these are minor tweaks.
2. Clinton talked budget balance but never seriously intended it. He characterized Gingrich's 7 year plan as "irresponsible", favoring a 10 year plan that would left his successor with the hard choices. They both got lucky and saw the budget (or at least the part that they agree to count) get balanced as the result of factors beyond their control.

Neither party has a credible claim to fiscal responsibility, and a claim to be less irresponsible (SG1) is not the same. If we're going to have national/social healthcare, let's not use bulshytt to justify it or describe its effects.

Posted by: Eric H at Nov 22, 2009 10:28:33 AM

Excellent post Tyler. I think you can condense SG1, SG2 and SG3 into one simple tag:

ID: Intellectually dishonest.

Posted by: mark at Nov 22, 2009 12:34:48 PM

Pretty much what Eric said. Being less fiscally irresponsible shouldn't be lauded as some virtuous characteristic. Anyway, I still haven't seen an answer as to why people think budgets are really that big of a deal. Is there some fear of hyper-inflation, money debasement, some unbearable Ricardian equivalent, crowding out effects, regulatory capture? What is it about fiscal policy that has everyone worried?

Posted by: Ryan Vann at Nov 22, 2009 12:42:21 PM

Whatever is passed this session will do one thing, and one thing only:

Establish the principle that everyone is entitled to prepaid health care, not just the very poor, the very wealthy, the very old, and the very well employed.

Increasingly the real middle class is being excluded from the health care system when they need it. The poor are covered by Medicaid, most boomers by government run or government subsidized and regulated insurance. Increasingly it is those born too late to get the great job with benefits, merely a job to get by on. These represent the real middle class.

This merely establishes health care are a middle class entitlement.

After all, while conservatives and libertarians condemn Medicare and Medicaid and call for its elimination, not one introduces a bill with sponsors to do just that, nor campaigns on that basis. And in the past few months, the most rapid attack from those who condemn Obama's "government takeover of health care" and the creation of a new entitlement are condemning the reduction in entitlement spending and the panels recommending "individual responsibility" on mammograms and paps smears.

Clearly the conservatives and Republicans know that this will merely force them to defend health care entitlements and force them to call for increased spending to satisfy their health care industry supporters, and ultimately make the argument for tax cuts and more spending on weapons for imagined future wars much harder to sell.

Medicare, which defines Medicaid, SCHIP, EMTALA, et al, have been continuously modified and expanded by both Democrats and Republicans over the decades with not one provision rolled back.

Posted by: mulp at Nov 22, 2009 12:49:10 PM

How health care reform could fall apart
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20091122/pl_politico/29798

Posted by: Andrew at Nov 22, 2009 2:34:35 PM

For those arguing that Congress controls the budget, that's simply not the case.

There's two kinds of spending, non-discretionary and discretionary spending. Non-discretionary spending (Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security) is supposed to be controlled by Congress, but only gets changed every few years. When it does change, the President's veto gives him a great deal of say in the process. Discretionary spending is primarily determined by a budget resolution written by the President and submitted to Congress every year for approval. Some elements of the resolution require bills to be passed, but most of this is determined by the President. Congress can make changes to it, but these changes are slight in the aggregate. In short, Congress controls regulations, but the President controls budgeting.

Andrew, earlier you stated the bill shifts medical expenses to the poor. Now you state it shifts medical services to the poor. Which is it? Everybody's been quite open about the attempts to increase medical services to the poor, and health care welfare plus the public option have been the main two things liberal activists have been pushing for. Of course there's going to be a lot of handouts to the poor in a Democratic bill, but those losses are overridden by savings elsewhere, so I don't know what point it was you were trying to make. As for the opposite argument if that was your intent, I don't see how a tax on the rich would increase medical expenses for the poor.

And I think you misunderstand Tyler Cowen's point. Matthew Yglesias has refuted all his economics arguments. By not disagreeing with them in this post, Tyler has implicitly conceded these arguments to Matt. He has now switched to making a political science argument about a theoretical populist backlash when the Medicare cuts occur. As I said, this is a big stretch, and I think Greg Sanders ably demonstrated why it's not going to be the problem Tyler imagines it will be.

Oh, and it's incredibly difficult to reduce the deficit, and the tide of popularity Obama enjoyed from 2008 is probably the main reason even this much health care reform can occur. Just look at the outcry over the F-22, which is about as useless a government program as I can imagine.

Posted by: David C at Nov 22, 2009 2:47:23 PM

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