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It's funny but to me this story is more surprising than the usual fare of prediction markets on whether bronzed bones of your ancestors will be transcribed into binary code for your Kindle, or simultaneously used as collateral for CDS swaps and bundled with adultery insurance:
Reached on the phone, Richard A. Hanson isn't quite sure he's ready to give an interview about this week's sale of Waldorf College. The college's president has talked quite a bit locally, trying to assure students, professors and the residents of Forest City, Iowa, that selling the liberal arts institution to a for-profit, online university is the best (in fact, only) option.
What persuaded Hanson to talk about what's happening at Waldorf is the question of whether he thinks other colleges will soon be facing the same choice. "You are going to be seeing a lot more of this from colleges like us," he said.
They're actually selling the college. Hurrah.
Posted by Tyler Cowen on May 6, 2009 at 02:23 PM in Education | Permalink
Comments
I went to Waldorf for my freshman and sophomore years. I attended the last year they granted associates degrees, which was only six years ago. They were far behind the times in converting to a four year college. They do have a pretty good communications program, from what I heard, I was a business major, and later econ major at a different school.
Waldorf also threw a lot of money down a pit trying to create satellite institutions, which is why they were financially strapped and servicing large amounts of debt. They also consistently overpaid ancillary staff members, had rampant nepotism and cronyism in their hiring, the food was awful by any standard, and these, along with many other authoritarian regulations on students that do not exist at most other schools, gave most people who attended the incentive to exit quickly.
My guess is that a lot of good will come from the sale because the institution could never reform itself from the inside, at least from what I have seen over the years.
Posted by: Carleton at May 6, 2009 4:31:48 PM
The university I went to had been founded in 1890, in 1990 it was sold to a Japanese university/company, and in 2000 it was again sold to a group of international investors. The first sale resulted in a massive infusion of capital into a biotechnology program (initially only BS, later MS and a 5 year dual degree) and the development of an international studies program.
As it was explained to me there were a lot of Japanese companies that invested in overseas universities during the 90s, due to the extreme cost and low rate of acceptance for on-island Japanese schools. The companies would send promising students to their foreign schools the way many US companies pay for graduate school.
Posted by: Joel at May 6, 2009 4:38:28 PM
Debt is a funny thing. It seems you should only take it on if you know what you are doing. But, if you don't know what you are doing, then why are you doing it?
Posted by: Andrew at May 6, 2009 5:45:12 PM
I wonder how feasible would offshoring professors be, especially in light of the increase in online courses. Spend a little on video equipment, contact and hire (for peanuts) third world academics, and see if the students care. I'm not sure how much of a quality dropoff there would be, especially at larger factory schools.
Posted by: Delirious at May 6, 2009 10:14:00 PM
@delirious -- it will be interesting to see to what extent accredited institutions keep their monopoly on education in the internet age.
most schools have yet to figure out that teaching and learning are different things.
Posted by: babar at May 6, 2009 10:57:25 PM
I have had foreign professors and it is hard as hell to understand them because of their accents. I had a law professor from England who spoke really fast, who was especially difficult to understand.
Posted by: adam at May 7, 2009 1:26:37 AM
This is fascinating. The place that Carleton is describing is nothing like that described in the article.
They were charging $17K in tuition, which isn't cheap.
I never realized that small, liberal arts colleges *ever* had associate degree programs per Carleton.
Also, the guy found his buyer by talking to his bond underwriter?????
Posted by: Cap Vandal at May 7, 2009 2:20:43 AM
It depends on economic growth :)
Seriously. If there is a lot of work for people, then companies are going to take people with marginal credentials to obtain their actual skills. The acceptance of these people will undermine the status of the B&M (bricks and mortar) university. We are left with research universities that have successful football programs. If, on the other hand, we continue with high unemployment workers will differentiate themselves with degrees.
Posted by: Andrew at May 7, 2009 3:34:29 AM
I just left a video-conferencing lecture, organized by another part of the company. This decreased my expectations for online education by a lot. I left the room with a larger headache and less understanding than even the worst factory-style real-life lectures had given me.
Posted by: Zamfir at May 7, 2009 7:46:53 AM
I wonder how feasible would offshoring professors be, especially in light of the increase in online courses. Spend a little on video equipment, contact and hire (for peanuts) third world academics, and see if the students care. I'm not sure how much of a quality dropoff there would be, especially at larger factory schools.
But why hire professors at all? You don't need to stream live lectures from foreign professors -- use recorded lectures. Hell, don't just use recorded lectures, use high-quality educational documentaries rather than just video of a talking head behind a lectern.
And if you want to hire staff for help during 'virtual office hours', there are grad students and non-tenure track lecturers all over the U.S. who are already working for peanuts and would love to have another source of income.
Posted by: Slocum at May 7, 2009 7:58:40 AM
The problem I see with most ideas for online universities is that they are virtually the same as post-order, learn from the books programs that already exist for a long time, and are no threat at all for established schools. Why would online material with prerecorded lectures work, where post-order material with video tapes didn't?
Posted by: Zamfir at May 7, 2009 8:31:53 AM
Maybe it is indiscreet to ask, but a sale means a price received. Cui bono?
Posted by: Diversity at May 7, 2009 8:36:50 AM
Joel you said, "The university I went to had been founded in 1890, in 1990 it was sold to a Japanese university/company, and in 2000 it was again sold to a group of international investors." Did you go to Salem-Teikyo Univerity in Salem, WV? I was curious since it was in the same college conference that I attended in the 1990s.
Posted by: 99thpercentile at May 7, 2009 9:10:24 AM
Would Harvard be worse if it were sold to Soros or Gates?
The answer isn't obvious.
Posted by: Greg Ransom at May 7, 2009 1:58:34 PM
Why would online material with prerecorded lectures work, where post-order material with video tapes didn't?
One answer is that online communications offer possibilities for low-cost student-student and student-instructor interactions that didn't exist in a 'tapes by mail' model. The same goes for access to a far greater collection of works than is available at any physical university library.
But...you're right that self-driven study is an old model (that's how Abe Lincoln became a lawyer). The requirements for degrees from accredited universities was a way for professions to restrict entry and universities to guarantee demand for their services. So there powerful organizations with vested interests in protecting the standard university model from low-cost competition, and that's the real obstacle.
Posted by: Slocum at May 7, 2009 3:42:18 PM
Debt is a funny thing. It seems you should only take it on if you know what you are doing. But, if you don't know what you are doing, then why are you doing it?
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