Marginal Revolution: One very bad economic indicator

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One very bad economic indicator

A Wal-Mart employee in suburban New York died after he was trampled by a crush of shoppers who tore down the front doors and thronged into the store early Friday morning, turning the annual rite of post-Thanksgiving bargain hunting into a Hobbesian frenzy.

Here is the story.

Posted by Tyler Cowen on November 28, 2008 at 06:26 PM in Current Affairs | Permalink

Comments

Do you agree with their use of the term "Hobbesian"?

Posted by: Highgamma at Nov 28, 2008 7:55:55 PM

Decades from now, this sad story will be frequently retold when people describe the end of the "Age of Consumerism".

Posted by: Russ R. at Nov 28, 2008 8:13:19 PM

If this is hobbesian I wonder what the NYTimes thinks of the world outside the west. Oh right, they love it. People are for the most part nasty greedy creatures and are hobbesian everywhere. Only a big enough, high-IQ extended family can give rise to a system of relatively impersonal capitalism that channels selfishness into productivity, and can later on pacify other tribes to some extent through empire and assimilation.

Posted by: auctoritas at Nov 28, 2008 8:25:33 PM

The Wal-Mart is question is right next to the Green Acres Mall, which is well-known in the New York area for attracting a rather rough crowd.

Posted by: Peter at Nov 28, 2008 8:35:18 PM

IMHO this is a bad economic indicator but not a terrible one. The difference between a depression and recession is that in a depression people kill themselves, in a recession they kill other people.

Posted by: Paul at Nov 28, 2008 9:54:51 PM

So many people shopping that this happens? Uh...where is that recession we were told about?

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Posted by: cx at Nov 29, 2008 2:27:35 AM

People, when in crowds, do things that they would never do as individuals. None of those people, as individuals, would break down the doors and stomp to death anyone who got in their way. But collectively they where bloodthirsty monsters.

People do horrible nasty things when they are able to avoid individual responsibility through collective action.

Another more controversial flame worthy example:

Imagine if someone let their dog poop on your front lawn... and imagine in response, you put on a scary costume, you ran out with a gun, and threatened to lock the perpetrator in a cage in your basement, or to shoot them, unless they paid you $100. People would, correctly so, call you an emotionally unstable psychopath! However, when people collectively hire professionals to do the very same on their behalf via the state, we believe that the very same act is not psychopathic. Clearly, an act of violence, intimidation, and brutality become legitimized if you commit the acts collectively.

So, in a "Hobbesian" sense, I see no problem with what happened at this Wal-Mart. The guy who got trampled to death had implicitly agreed to a social contract whereby the crowd is legitimately allowed to stomp him to death if he stands in the way of cheap consumer goods. In a Hobbesian sense, we would call it social justice via informal democracy.

Posted by: Rex Rhino at Nov 29, 2008 3:25:51 AM

This is what I love about libertarians. All heart.

Posted by: Ben at Nov 29, 2008 4:50:58 AM

Rex, I pitty you for your view on people. You say: "People do horrible nasty things when they are able to avoid individual responsibility through collective action."
I don't think the issue here is "responsibility" , rather that - People do horrible nasty things when they are loosing their minds through collective action.

Posted by: Billy at Nov 29, 2008 7:16:18 AM

Are you sure the link is not to The Onion?

Posted by: Thomas at Nov 29, 2008 8:03:39 AM

Markets in everything. In this case, people willing to behave like animals for a few dollars.

Posted by: Alan Brown at Nov 29, 2008 8:18:28 AM

Doesn't this happen somewhere almost every year?

Posted by: Hei Lun Chan at Nov 29, 2008 8:57:59 AM

Personally I am curious what all the Chinese entries said. Probably, "You Americans have no idea what Hobbesian mob scenes are like!"

Posted by: Barkley Rosser at Nov 29, 2008 9:44:07 AM

This madness surrounding holiday hopping is why I have been buying all my Christmas presents from Amazon the past few years. Since I have Amazon Prime I don't spend anything on shipping, and I'm spared dealing with the crushing (literally it now seems) throngs. I hate shopping enough as it is, I can't fathom why anyone would wait outside a store in the freezing cold for hours just to buy some $9 DVDs and $800 flat-panel TVs.

Posted by: Christina at Nov 29, 2008 11:42:56 AM

I suspect its more likely a problem of crowd control, not blood thirstiness. Those in the back push forward until the doors fail, forcing the front of the crowd onto the employee who was killed. I noted one version of the story had people stepping over him - but who could stop to help him without themselves being run over?

I supect the chinese is off a fortune cookie.

Posted by: rmark at Nov 29, 2008 12:56:15 PM

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