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Summers Vindicated (again)
For the past week or so the newspapers have been trumpeting a new study showing no difference in average math ability between males and females. Few people who have looked at the data thought that there were big differences in average ability but many media reports also said that the study showed no differences in high ability.
The LA Times, for example, wrote:
The study also undermined the assumption -- infamously espoused by former Harvard University President Lawrence H. Summers in 2005 -- that boys are more likely than girls to be math geniuses.
Scientific American said:
So the team checked out the most gifted children. Again, no difference. From any angle, girls measured up to boys. Still, there’s a lack of women in the highest levels of professional math, engineering and physics. Some have said that’s because of an innate difference in math ability. But the new research shows that that explanation just doesn’t add up.
The Chronicle of Higher Education said:
The research team also studied if there were gender discrepancies at the highest levels of mathematical ability and how well boys and girls resolved complex problems. Again they found no significant differences.
All of these reports and many more like them are false. In fact, consistent with many earlier studies (JSTOR), what this study found was that the ratio of male to female variance in ability was positive and significant, in other words we can expect that there will be more math geniuses and more dullards, among males than among females. I quote from the study (VR is variance ratio):
Greater male variance is indicated by VR > 1.0. All VRs, by state and grade, are >1.0 [range 1.11 to 1.21].
Notice that the greater male variance is observable in the earliest data, grade 2. (In addition, higher male VRS have been noted for over a century). Now the study authors clearly wanted to downplay this finding so they wrote things like "our analyses show greater male variability, although the discrepancy in variances is not large." Which is true in some sense but the point is that small differences in variance can make for big differences in outcome at the top. The authors acknowledge this with the following:
If a particular specialty required mathematical skills at the 99th percentile, and the gender ratio is 2.0, we would expect 67% men in the occupation and 33% women. Yet today, for example, Ph.D. programs in engineering average only about 15% women.
So even by the authors' calculations you would expect twice as many men as women in engineering PhD programs due to math-ability differences alone (compare with the media reports above). But what the author's don't tell you is that the gender ratio will get larger the higher the percentile. Larry Summers in his infamous talk, was explicit about this point:
...if one is talking about physicists at a top twenty-five research university, one is not talking about people who are two standard deviations above the mean...But it's talking about people who are three and a half, four standard deviations above the mean in the one in 5,000, one in 10,000 class. Even small differences in the standard deviation will translate into very large differences in the available pool substantially out.
If you do the same type of calculation as the authors but now look at the expected gender ratio at 4 standard deviations from the mean you find a ratio of more than 3:1, i.e. just over 75 men for every 25 women should be expected at say a top-25 math or physics department on the basis of math ability alone (see the extension for details on my calculation). Now does this explain everything that is going on? I doubt it. As Summers also pointed out it takes more than ability to become a professor at Harvard and if there are variance differences in characteristics other than ability (and there are) we can easily get a even larger expected gender ratio.
Does this mean that discrimination is not a problem? Certainly not but we need the media and academia to accurately present the data on ability if we are to understand how large a role other issues may play.
Addendum: Andrew Gelman points out that perhaps alone among the media, Keith Winstein at the WSJ reported the story correctly.
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The authors show variance ratios of 1.11 to 1.21, I take a VR of 1.16. If we set the female variance to 1 this implies the standard deviation for female ability is 1 and for male ability 1.077. Using an online calculator for the Normal distribution you can find that given their standard deviation .0102% of males have ability of 4 or greater (4 female sds) but given their sd only .0032% of females can be expected to have the same level of ability, thus a gender ratio of 3.18.
Note that we are assuming that mathematical ability is normally distributed - we know the data fit this distribution around the mean but we don't know much about what happens at the very top.
Posted by Alex Tabarrok on July 28, 2008 at 07:44 AM in Science | Permalink
Comments
Many of these reports talk about "innate Math ability". But let's not forget that mathematical ability, like chess-playing ability, is a convolution of other abilities and character traits. For instance, any subpopulation with higher level of obsessiveness (e.g. males) will be overrepresented in academia. Future studies should disentangle these things. We may all be equal in Math ability, but we may have different willingness to spend hours sitting in a chair solving mathematical problems.
Posted by: londenio at Jul 28, 2008 8:02:08 AM
Actually, I think the media reaction to this has made it perfectly clear why Summer's speech brought the response it did. Regardless of what Summer's said, Summer's comments were going to be interpreted by almost everyone as essentially "Girl's can't do math."
The media saw it that way, and so did most of the people I heard comment on it (both in support and against).
Someone in a public position speaking in a public venue is responsible not only for the content of what he says, but how that content will be interpreted and used by the greater public. Being "technically correct" doesn't get you off.
Posted by: Tom West at Jul 28, 2008 8:08:44 AM
*sigh* Haven't had my coffee. "Girl's can't do math" -> "Girls can't do math".
Posted by: Tom West at Jul 28, 2008 8:09:58 AM
Dear Alex,
have you written your will yet?
You don't seem to realize that the atmosphere of intellectual freedom that prevailed under the Holy Inquisition (apart from some cosmological nit-picking) no longer prevails.
Anyway, bravo for your courage.
Posted by: Torquemada at Jul 28, 2008 8:17:40 AM
Yes, yes, commenters, this is the same Tom West who argues we should suppress such research because anyone who raises SCIENTIFIC questions over major social issues might be doing so for ends Tom West doesn't like, and couldn't possibly be inevitable in the new genetic age.
Posted by: Billare at Jul 28, 2008 8:35:45 AM
Torquemada to Tom West.
You write:
"Someone in a public position speaking in a public venue is responsible not only for the content of what he says, but how that content will be interpreted and used by the greater public. Being "technically correct" doesn't get you off."
Ah Tom, you have the exactly correct attitude toward public discourse.
My henchmen were always so ridiculously literal-minded when they, hmmm, extracted confessions from heretics instead on concentrating on the greater public's interpretation of said heretics' words.
What a pity you weren't born in my more vigourous time ...
Yours fraternally,
Torquemada.
Posted by: Torquemada at Jul 28, 2008 8:44:34 AM
I love XKCD.
I hear the following all the time from my fellow left-wing intellectuals when talking about the unpopular nuances in arguments: we know there's more to it than that, but we can't count on other people to know that. Therefore we should encourage them not to talk about it at all.
Drives me crazy.
Posted by: Renee at Jul 28, 2008 8:48:15 AM
Imagine if we saw the fact that there are many more men in prison than women as a purely social problem to be corrected.
Posted by: Michael Foody at Jul 28, 2008 8:50:36 AM
Regardless of what Gore said, Gore's comments were interpreted by almost everyone as essentially, "I invented the Internet".
Regardless of what Obama said, ...
You are being far too disingenuous, Tom West. If someone you actually supported and liked was widely misinterpreted, you would be the first to protest indignantly at the injustice.
Posted by: at Jul 28, 2008 8:55:37 AM
Nobody expects a comparison to the Spanish Inquisition!
Posted by: Billare at Jul 28, 2008 9:01:40 AM
"Someone in a public position speaking in a public venue is responsible not only for the content of what he says, but how that content will be interpreted and used by the greater public. Being "technically correct" doesn't get you off."
You're not allowed to say anything smart in public, because dumb people exist!
Tom, if you think I'm misrepresenting your position, just remember - it's your own damn fault for saying something that I could interpret that way.
Posted by: Keith at Jul 28, 2008 9:14:21 AM
The reason for the greater variability among males is that it has evolutionary survival value. Nature experiments with men rather than with the sex that bears the offspring.
Posted by: John Goodman at Jul 28, 2008 9:18:12 AM
One more factually inaccurate and/or libelous Summers jab from the New York Times:
"Three years after the president of Harvard, Lawrence H. Summers, got into trouble for questioning women's "intrinsic aptitude" for science and engineering a study paid for by the National Science Foundation has found that girls perform as well as boys on standardized math tests."
Posted by: Jason Malloy at Jul 28, 2008 9:24:13 AM
Yes, yes, commenters, this is the same Tom West who argues we should suppress such research because anyone who raises SCIENTIFIC questions over major social issues might be doing so for ends Tom West doesn't like, and couldn't possibly be inevitable in the new genetic age.
Totally different issue, and one that would hijack this topic.
Here I am merely saying that public figures in public venues will and should be held accountable for the *effects* of their words. As a public figure, you don't enjoy all the freedoms to say whatever you will. It's part of the responsibility of the job, and if you aren't prepared for it, you don't take the job.
Nobody expects a comparison to the Spanish Inquisition!
Well, I didn't.
Posted by: Tom West at Jul 28, 2008 9:24:34 AM
Meanwhile John Tierney continues to expose the flimsiness of sexual discrimination claims on his New York Times blog.
Posted by: Jason Malloy at Jul 28, 2008 9:28:44 AM
The people who have misrepresented Summers and the latest study should know better. They have chosen to misrepresent this information for political reasons.
Posted by: Rich Berger at Jul 28, 2008 9:42:36 AM
hmmm, but my undergraduate engineering class was hardly the 4th-5th std dev of natural math ability (myself as case in point...) and yet the class was nonetheless 70-75% male.
Posted by: Thomas Purves at Jul 28, 2008 9:50:33 AM
Tom, if you think I'm misrepresenting your position, just remember - it's your own damn fault for saying something that I could interpret that way.
People will misrepresent what I say as they will. However, since my influence is only slightly above nil, the effects of their misunderstanding is also negligible, and the effects and cost on others also almost nil. That's why it doesn't cost me my job.
You are being far too disingenuous, Tom West. If someone you actually supported and liked was widely misinterpreted, you would be the first to protest indignantly at the injustice.
I would argue that no-one actually interpreted Al Gore's comments as "I invented the Internet". They correctly interpreted it as "I'm trying to claim lots of credit for stuff I'm not really responsible for" and he paid a steep political price for it. Am I unhappy about it? Yes, but I don't think the cost was undeserved.
I'll make an exception for *deliberate* misinterpretation. But then, my concern about Summers was not the group of outraged professors who I imagine understood exactly what he was saying and chose to misinterpret it. It was for the interpretation of his comments that I saw in men and women (including teachers!) in the community (and the media).
Posted by: Tom West at Jul 28, 2008 9:53:01 AM
The importance of math ability for science and engineering is overweighted by people in other fields. A certain minimum level of competence is required but only in theoretical physics is math ability is the determining factor in success and even there physical insight is probably more important.
Posted by: joan at Jul 28, 2008 9:59:22 AM
If a particular specialty required mathematical skills at the 99th percentile, and the gender ratio is 2.0, we would expect 67% men in the occupation and 33% women. Yet today, for example, Ph.D. programs in engineering average only about 15% women.
I had exactly the same reaction to that sentence. How did the 99th percentile make it into this discussion? 4 million high school students graduate every year. 1% of that is 40,000! Now, obviously the graduate school process doesn't provide a straight ordinal ranking by math ability, but by working out the math only for the 99th percentile, the researchers are giving a very misleading view of their results.
Posted by: Zach at Jul 28, 2008 10:00:58 AM
The importance of math ability for science and engineering is overweighted by people in other fields. A certain minimum level of competence is required but only in theoretical physics is math ability is the determining factor in success and even there physical insight is probably more important.
I agree with this statement, but there may also be other characteristics, as yet unexplored, which could further select between the two populations. If you needed to be in the 99th percentile for two unrelated characteristics (say, math and sheer bloody-mindedness), you could get further differences. Based on this study, I'd say the gender differences model is unproven, but very much alive.
Posted by: Zach at Jul 28, 2008 10:11:11 AM
Renee--"I hear the following all the time from my fellow left-wing intellectuals when talking about the unpopular nuances in arguments: we know there's more to it than that, but we can't count on other people to know that."
The problem isn't your left-wing intellectual friends. Your problem is that friends of an intellectual feather flock together. Or perhaps, show me your friends and I'll know who you are. Generalizing the qualities of other people seems to be a trait you share in common with your pinko friends.
Posted by: gene at Jul 28, 2008 10:42:17 AM
How did the 99th percentile make it into this discussion? 4 million high school students graduate every year.
The 99th percentile made it into the discussion when they decided to talk about Ph.D. Engineering, which they use for their example.
One interesting example of the triumph of variance even over aptitude and preference is in competitive Scrabble. This is a field where most of the competitors are women, and there is some evidence that the average woman is better at Scrabble than the average man. But at the very highest levels of the game, the top competitors are still mostly men.
Posted by: bbartlog at Jul 28, 2008 10:44:14 AM
The 99th percentile made it into the discussion when they decided to talk about Ph.D. Engineering, which they use for their example.
The 3 to 1 ratio made it into the discussion when they decided to talk about Ph.D. Engineering. The actual mathematical aptitude of Ph.D. Engineers is not given, although far less than 1% of the population earn Ph.D.s in Engineering. If they used the actual fraction of the population that gets Ph.D.s and calculated the male/female ratio for that fraction, they would get a higher ratio than they got.
Posted by: Zach at Jul 28, 2008 11:07:15 AM
The difference in variance argument requires a strong assumption that the variance is symmetric. There's pretty good evidence that boys have some additional downside risk probably due to genetics (e.g. autism). It's also possible that there's some cultural downside risks for boys, e.g., the recent findings that boys are doing worse on average throughout schooling also seems unlikely to be entirely innate. So it's not safe to assume that larger variance means more men in the upper tail.
We just simply don't know yet. The problem with Summers' claim wasn't that it is heresy to study these issues or consider the hypotheses. The problem is that the president of Harvard is in a position over the policy that could be implemented to remedy what might be a long-standing deep unfairness to women in these fields.
There is no possible question that women have been historically discriminated against in academia. So even with the best possible guess about what the ratio would be in a perfectly fair system (e.g., even if it isn't 50-50 because some part of the variance hypothesis is correct), it's almost certainly still higher than what it is.
Where Summers was wrong was in seeming to indicate that he wouldn't pursue policies that would try to find a way to improve on past unfairness without weakening his university (the fundamental challenge of affirmative action). Scientists working in this area can and should be considering every possible hypothesis and the relevant data. Policy guys need to be more cautious where the science is uncertain and the policy decisions have significant impacts.
Posted by: Paul J. Reber at Jul 28, 2008 11:46:43 AM