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How to behave when you're old
Bryan Caplan presents us with his dilemma:
When I'm old, I want to be the octogenarian that the Young Turks come to with their crazy new ideas. I don't want to be the senior professor that the whippersnapper assistant profs avoid. Above all else, I never want to be a lunch tax - I like lunch too much.
Unfortunately, by the time I'm 80 I'll probably be too befuddled to figure out how to do any of this. So I want to figure it out now, tape it on my office wall, and refer to it when the time is ripe.
...Not mentioning any names, what are the biggest social mistakes elderly faculty make? What are some simple strategies for them to ingratiate themselves to the next generation? If you've got some good advice, I'll thank you when I'm 80. If I remember!
I remain a fan of Richard Posner's book on old age, one of his best. I ask Bryan: would he still take the advice that his 12-year-old self might have taped to a door? Neurological changes aside, the elderly simply have less incentive to be deferential and to court their younger colleagues; Aristotle knew this too.
Bryan's best lunchtime bet is that, when he is eighty, I am still around at ninety.
An alternative strategy is to find -- today -- the eighty-year olds who are still fascinating and run your new ideas by them. Most of them will gladly receive you. I used to fly out to Ann Arbor occasionally to meet with the great Marvin Becker, but in general I haven't done much of this in my life. Call that my failing but it's another reason why so many eighty-year-olds don't bother to appeal to Young Turks as a constituency.
Overall I am struck by how little beneficial trade there is between the generations. I find this one of the most striking stylized facts of the social sciences; one simple model is that people don't want to leave groups that produce fun and high relative status for them, and that is what switching across the generations usually entails.
Do you all have any other advice for Bryan?
Posted by Tyler Cowen on May 1, 2008 at 06:58 AM in Education | Permalink
Comments
"Overall I am struck by how little beneficial trade there is between the generations."
But what about the written word? I'm middle-aged. I don't often travel to meet and chat with the elderly, or the young for that matter; but I read their stuff, and also engage in a fair bit of correspondence.
Posted by: BGC at May 1, 2008 7:53:35 AM
What is schooling other than trade between generations? First the young pay money for eductaion, from say graudate school level on they pay partially with their own ideas.
As for old people: I suspect that by the time a scholar hits 80, she has usually left a paper trail that describes most of her opinions. I suspect a lot of older people's wisdom gets internailzed by their youger readers: either because the ideas have become common wisdom, or because people say "prof A would probably say this about it". Even if that's not true, it still keeps them from asking, because they think they already know what the answer will be.
Posted by: GreatZamfir at May 1, 2008 8:08:14 AM
The old have little incentive to learn - why build human capital when it will soon depreciate? - thus they are annoying at lunch because they don't really listen.
Thus, I have two predictions. 1) Old people will be less annoying as life expectancy increases. 2) Robin Hanson will be the least annoying old person because he expects to live forever. Thus, my advice to Bryan is that we need to keep Robin around - of course, he already knows that.
Posted by: Alex Tabarrok at May 1, 2008 8:19:32 AM
The biggest mistake elderly faculty make is not retiring. Nobody knows what to do with this unproductive tenured geriatric deadwood that sucks up valuable resources. I am reminded of the story about the Dean who one day called in an aging professor who was notorious for doing nothing. The Dean praised him for his many years of service and asked if it wasn't now time to consider retiring on half pay. The professor thanked the Dean for his kind words but stated that he had no intention of retiring on half pay since he was already retired on full pay.
Posted by: Ned at May 1, 2008 9:13:52 AM
Within econ, the young are often focused on the latest and greatest narrow topic; technique is valued over ideas. The elders are more likely to be out of touch (re: the latest whiz bang) and also more likely to be focused on broader syntheses (aka "big ideas"). This can make for difficulties of translation, with the young being just as much at fault. Given this unavoidable bias, the best thing for the elder is to keep in touch with the general trends and make some effort to frame his ideas in ways that seem relevant for the young'uns. Or at least be entertaining. Generally, the second best course of action is to become genuinely interested in hearing about the work the young are doing.
Posted by: jn at May 1, 2008 9:36:00 AM
Perhaps as we get older, we realize that our opinions, and opinions in general, aren't as valuable as we once thought. There is less incentive to share them because experience has taught us that they are only margninally valuable and dependent on a changing environment.
We become less interested and in the abstract (and therefor, less interesting). Probably more focused on practical things, like keeping our home and office the way we like them.
Posted by: aaron at May 1, 2008 10:14:11 AM
The biggest mistake elderly faculty make is not retiring. Nobody knows what to do with this unproductive tenured geriatric deadwood that sucks up valuable resources.
Quite the opposite is the case in the business world, where the trend is toward retirement at ridiculously young ages. 55 is the new 65, and all that.
Posted by: Peter at May 1, 2008 10:24:23 AM
Well, over on econlog, someone suggested using Buchanan as a model. I suggested using Gordon Tullock as
one instead. However, following the GT model might work better if people are sympathizing with you
because someone around you has gotten a Nobel Prize, and they think you should have gotten one as well.
So, Tyler, if you or Robin Hanson get a Nobel, that will help Bryan if he wants to emulate Gordon Tullock.
Posted by: Barkley Rosser at May 1, 2008 11:32:47 AM
What Bryan fails to realize is the valuable social function the "old" play in throwing cold water on new ideas. I agree with Karl Popper that most new ideas are wrong. So that the uncritical exuberance of the "young" needs to be tempered by the negativity of the old. But out of that conflict good new ideas can come. The mistake that Bryan makes is that he wants the young to like him. Sorry, that is not what the growth of knowledge is about. A popular professor is not always good one. The growth of knowledge can be painful. Bad new ideas may cause big disappointments in those who think thay have discovered the New World, but have not.
Posted by: Mario Rizzo at May 1, 2008 12:11:25 PM
Not sure it counts as trade, but intergenerational relationships seem popular. A problem for young people dating someone their own age is that they both know so little, or know so much of the same things. Relationships with older people are learning experience for younger people. For older people such relationships are teaching experiences and require flexibility. (All this apart from the usual snide sex comments and jokes). The ancient Greeks had, what, males ten or so years older in marriages? I assume that a significant age difference was common in history as men would require more years to secure income and assets, and women were fertile under age 20.
Posted by: Greg Rehmke at May 1, 2008 12:20:35 PM
The old have little incentive to learn - why build human capital when it will soon depreciate?
I don't buy this. It's way too stylized.
Many people simply enjoy learning for its own sake. I assume this is particularly common among those who have followed academic careers. Also, there is the question of alternative activities. Physical activity gets limited as one ages. Few 80-year olds play tennis or go camping, so they may be more rather than less inclined to spend time reading.
The notion that old people will simply eat, sleep, and watch TV until the end comes is not only insulting but wrong.
Posted by: Bernard Yomtov at May 1, 2008 12:20:56 PM
Elders who are sought out by younger generations are those who are funny and who have great stories to tell.
Posted by: meter at May 1, 2008 12:24:44 PM
There's a tale of an old boy at Trinity Hall, Cambridge, who had been appointed before they had a retirement age. He just went on and on. When he turned 80 he remarked that he was no longer an anomoly, he had become an abuse.
Posted by: dearieme at May 1, 2008 12:33:59 PM
Some times young people achieve things, because they don't know they can't.
Posted by: james at May 1, 2008 12:54:06 PM
Alex & Aaron -
Whatever were (or are) things like in your predecessor family setting?
And those of you focusing on "Economics" as a subject of principal interest seem unaware of the constancy of change in perceptions of what is "important" and what we think we know.
There is a scent of over-generalization here. Individuals "age" differently, just as they differ in all other aspects of living.
There are many who are as out of place with their own "age group" as are most of the commentators here are with their own "age groups." Many don't live in "retirement" groups - unlike those many "academics" who have retreated into the cocoons of academic environments, so those there should not be shocked that those who age in those environments do not represent a desirable future, or companionable present.
As for not listening: By one's 80s (this writer is into year 84), by then one has seen and smelled many a Narcissus, and while each has its beauty and moment, the charm on offer is ephemeral.
As to continued learning: those of us so moved have grasped that it is a form of hunger, possibly unquenchable thirst - not a matter of self-gratification or ego embelishment, or the joy of being drunk from the Pyerian Spring.
It is all highly individual; and many of the views expressed indicate a sad future in aging and its relationships for those with such views.
R. Richard Schweitzer
s24rrs@aol.com
Posted by: R.Richard Schweitzer at May 1, 2008 3:04:12 PM
Don't know. However, maybe you would like to check out my retirement community for old economists in Florida.
"Elders who are sought out by younger generations are those who are funny and who have great stories to tell." They are called teachers. If you have a reputation as a teacher, you are probably more approachable.
Posted by: jorod at May 1, 2008 3:14:03 PM
the internet may be a great leveler for this.
I wonder what share of the people who comment here are of retirement age, but nobody realizes it?
Posted by: spencer at May 1, 2008 3:27:17 PM
'Young Turks'? Maybe he wants to start a new genocide?
Posted by: ArmenianStillAlive at May 1, 2008 10:22:06 PM
Not every elder who is amusing and chock full of interesting anecdotes is a teacher - if by teacher you refer to those once in the profession.
Spend time in a retirement home and you'll quickly see that generalizations as to who best communicates with the young are out the window. Wisdom and humor abounds from the unlikeliest of sources. As does inner vitality of course.
Posted by: meter at May 2, 2008 10:24:11 AM
Maybe it would help to wear a red hat and a purple dress, or is that for women only?
Posted by: Jens Fiederer at May 2, 2008 5:08:23 PM
