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Whatever happened to markets in everything?
I posted this on northern Virginia Craigslist and haven't heard a peep:
I am looking to learn how to use Second Life. I would like a series of lessons from a tutor with extensive experience in Second Life. I don't need anything very complicated, just an introduction to the basics. Please email me your rates.
Why is this market failing me? And what should I do next?
Posted by Tyler Cowen on April 10, 2008 at 11:29 AM in Current Affairs | Permalink
Comments
Perhaps the NOVA Craig's List does not provide enough coverage for your target market.
Posted by: mith at Apr 10, 2008 11:34:51 AM
Something Awful to the rescue.
Posted by: TGGP at Apr 10, 2008 11:50:38 AM
I'd think the market to learn about second life probably exists in second life, not Fairfax.
Posted by: heiwa at Apr 10, 2008 11:51:55 AM
Right on to previous comment.
Hey, Tyler, let me ask you -- what personal budget software to you use? I'm a 'creative' here in LA, and Quicken baffles me, and I don't know how to do an Excel spreadsheet, either. I use a Mac...
Help me, Obi Wan Tyler, you're my only hope...
Posted by: david haynes at Apr 10, 2008 11:54:11 AM
"And what should I do next?"
Read _Second Life for Dummies_, duh. :)
http://www.amazon.com/Second-Life-Dummies-Computer-Tech/dp/0470180250/
Posted by: Jacqueline at Apr 10, 2008 11:56:45 AM
Offer a price for the service?
Posted by: jn at Apr 10, 2008 12:00:08 PM
I think the next thing you should do is post your request on your blog and see if any of your thousands of readers could help you out. I can't, but maybe somebody else can. If you don't want to take the easy way out, I have my theory below.
I think your problem might be that there really isn't a market for what you are asking. Thus there is no way to know how to price the service you want. It might work better if you set the price yourself. You can either set it at what you think the going rates for such tutoring should be or by how much you are willing to willing to pay for lessons. But either way a price in your post will either set the (amazingly inefficient) market price or show you that you are pricing your request below the market.
Posted by: Kinney at Apr 10, 2008 12:00:27 PM
Tyler, try the largest Second Life forums you can find. You'll get tons of responses.
Posted by: Grant at Apr 10, 2008 12:01:41 PM
I've helped people through it, so I could be your guide, though I haven't used it since '03 (!), if you could buy me a new account,
just a reactivation of the old for a month. I'd want $30/hour on top, though, and I don't know what incentive
structure you'd want to make sure you and I both put in the effort. My credibility is that I've posted
here for ~18 months. I'm willing to trust your effort level.
I would also take off one hour from my fee if you'd agree to 20-min vidchat interview about economics that I could put on my yt page.
In my time on SL I have mastered and taught to others:
-Making tattoos with varying levels of transparency.
-Making arbitrary 3D objects, including for costumes.
-Scripting. (I have written a banking system, listening bugs [!], and voice-throwers.)
But about the market problem: is there no Craigslist for a broader area of the anglosphere? I wouldn't
say the market has failed you until either a) that method gets no bites, or b) such a broader net does
not exist on craiglist (and is craiglist even part of the market...?)
Posted by: Person at Apr 10, 2008 12:07:57 PM
I second the "offer a price" suggestion. I am about to post a similar request re: bicycle tire changing tutorial to the CU triathlon listserv, and was imagining offering specifics like 60-90 minutes for $40 (rate negotiable), also specifying location near to campus. Cycling enthusiasts may have a more evangelical attitude than Second Lifers, however, towards helping newcomers enter the sport.
Posted by: Jenny at Apr 10, 2008 12:10:36 PM
But Tyler...hiring someone to give you lessons is so NOT "Web 2.0." You can't price such a thing because it is nonsensical in an "everything on the Internet" kind of world. You're expected to learn online, e.g. at
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Video_Tutorials
Posted by: Richard Berlin at Apr 10, 2008 12:17:34 PM
Markets exist. We just have to know where to find them.
There are farmers markets in many small towns [Falls Church, VA for example]. Many times these are on Saturday mornings. If I want a farmers market and I have no idea when and where it is can I say the market for local produce is failing me? No, because the sellers have done their part by meeting in a central location [on a regular day and time] where many buyers can get the greatest range of products.
There are some good comments by those who replied earlier.
Your market exists... keep looking for it.
Posted by: David Damore at Apr 10, 2008 12:35:52 PM
I use Second Life quite a lot myself.
When asking for a tutor, though....the real BASICS are learned VERY quickly - probably more quickly than you could even establish CONTACT with a real life tutor. Given the ease of the task, and the amount of respect you get from your commenters, your odd for a freebie are rather good.
For anything BEYOND the basics (building objects, scripting, doing animations, helping people act out their rape fantasies, etc.) you need to be kind of specific because many very experienced players might not ever have dealt with one specific sector. Of course, as somebody already mentioned, there are MANY resources available online.
Posted by: jens fiederer at Apr 10, 2008 12:40:20 PM
Tyler_Cowen is asking for someone to hold is hand through the learning process
and give it a "human touch". Video tutorials won't do that. SL for dummies
won't do that. A written intro definitely won't do that.
Posted by: Person at Apr 10, 2008 12:49:47 PM
Possibly because many think that your ad is misplaced. Maybe people think that you're surreptitiously seeking MFM but not wanting to put an ad in the Casual Encounters section of Craig's List and instead looking there.
Posted by: Me at Apr 10, 2008 12:57:58 PM
Probably because it's not a very good market for what you want...I'd guess you'd be better off finding someone local with some free time on a Second Life forum. (I can't point you to one any better than Google can, though, and I don't really know anyone who still uses SL regularly.)
Craigslist isn't that great for searching for services which only a small fraction of the site's audience could provide. Perhaps you overestimate how many people are really into SL and on Craigslist in the area? I have a few unusual skills and areas of knowledge; I would take a short-term gig using one of them if it were offered to me without my having to look for it. But I generally only search Craigslist postings when I have a reason to be actively looking for something else.
(As others suggest, this blog post will probably be more effective!)
There's also the possibility that since it's kind of a weird request, no one thought you were serious...
Posted by: Kat at Apr 10, 2008 1:00:39 PM
He wasn't entirely clear whether he wanted his tutor to be physically present (which would exclude a large sector, but is suggested by the fact he advertised in a LOCAL medium) or whether phone - or even SL presence would suffice.
I'm guessing most SL people would automatically assume the LATTER.
I'd be happy to talk him through the very beginning on the phone for about 30 minutes, just for the honor of TALKING to him....and by then he'd be able to find a more specific tutor (hey, just pick any patient Escort!) he could pay in Linden$. But I would not be willing to fly out to him unless there was a LOT of money involved.
Posted by: jens fiederer at Apr 10, 2008 1:01:57 PM
Oh - in case you haven't read much at ALL, an Escort is a Second Life prostitute. You'd need a patient one because some of them are not just in it for the money, and would feel deprived if they didn't get the sex - but most will probably be happy to help you along and go shopping with you (you want to get a cool shape and skin and clothes early on, to avoid discrimination - or maybe not, if you actually want to experience being seen as a not-quite-human-newbie by the less tolerant crowd).
Posted by: jens fiederer at Apr 10, 2008 1:07:24 PM
You need to say who you are in the ad. People would be happier helping a college professor, because then they know you're not some creep.
Advertise on campus instead.
Posted by: Macneil at Apr 10, 2008 1:13:15 PM
what you should do next is forget about second life and stop talking about it forever.
Posted by: ron at Apr 10, 2008 1:13:44 PM
Macneil and "me" have a point, by the way.
There is a lot of X-rated use of SL, so some people reading the ad might well be interpreting it as something like "I would like to have intercourse with my wife for the first time, but am not comfortable doing this without a coach standing by. Please contact me with your rates"
If you don't post a picture of you or your wife with that ad, the response is likely to be low.
Posted by: jens fiederer at Apr 10, 2008 1:18:52 PM
david haynes:
I've never personally used Quicken (though I use Quickbooks at work all the time), but I'm told that it's very useful once you get past the painfully steep learning curve. Take heart!
Posted by: d.cous. at Apr 10, 2008 1:20:29 PM
Maybe the presales effort is an obstacle. Since there is no market yet, a few terms of service must be invented and negociated. It is basically a transaction cost problem.
You could either offer compensation for the presales effort, or make your offer potentially attractive to stimulate potential bidders.
Posted by: Stephane at Apr 10, 2008 1:33:20 PM
be glad the market failed and enjoy the fact that you already have a life and don't need to pretend in "second life"
Posted by: oops at Apr 10, 2008 1:43:24 PM
Forget CraigList.
You're the #1 economics blogger.
Phone the Linden Lab P.R. people and tell them your inquiry.
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Psstt... There is a NYT article on prediction markets...
www.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/technology/techspecial/09predict.html
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Posted by: Chris Masse at Apr 10, 2008 2:02:44 PM
