« The infinitely bad sneeze | Main | Iraq update »
Whatever happened to markets in everything?
I posted this on northern Virginia Craigslist and haven't heard a peep:
I am looking to learn how to use Second Life. I would like a series of lessons from a tutor with extensive experience in Second Life. I don't need anything very complicated, just an introduction to the basics. Please email me your rates.
Why is this market failing me? And what should I do next?
Posted by Tyler Cowen on April 10, 2008 at 11:29 AM in Current Affairs | Permalink
Comments
Perhaps the NOVA Craig's List does not provide enough coverage for your target market.
Posted by: mith at Apr 10, 2008 11:34:51 AM
Something Awful to the rescue.
Posted by: TGGP at Apr 10, 2008 11:50:38 AM
I'd think the market to learn about second life probably exists in second life, not Fairfax.
Posted by: heiwa at Apr 10, 2008 11:51:55 AM
Right on to previous comment.
Hey, Tyler, let me ask you -- what personal budget software to you use? I'm a 'creative' here in LA, and Quicken baffles me, and I don't know how to do an Excel spreadsheet, either. I use a Mac...
Help me, Obi Wan Tyler, you're my only hope...
Posted by: david haynes at Apr 10, 2008 11:54:11 AM
"And what should I do next?"
Read _Second Life for Dummies_, duh. :)
http://www.amazon.com/Second-Life-Dummies-Computer-Tech/dp/0470180250/
Posted by: Jacqueline at Apr 10, 2008 11:56:45 AM
Offer a price for the service?
Posted by: jn at Apr 10, 2008 12:00:08 PM
I think the next thing you should do is post your request on your blog and see if any of your thousands of readers could help you out. I can't, but maybe somebody else can. If you don't want to take the easy way out, I have my theory below.
I think your problem might be that there really isn't a market for what you are asking. Thus there is no way to know how to price the service you want. It might work better if you set the price yourself. You can either set it at what you think the going rates for such tutoring should be or by how much you are willing to willing to pay for lessons. But either way a price in your post will either set the (amazingly inefficient) market price or show you that you are pricing your request below the market.
Posted by: Kinney at Apr 10, 2008 12:00:27 PM
Tyler, try the largest Second Life forums you can find. You'll get tons of responses.
Posted by: Grant at Apr 10, 2008 12:01:41 PM
I've helped people through it, so I could be your guide, though I haven't used it since '03 (!), if you could buy me a new account,
just a reactivation of the old for a month. I'd want $30/hour on top, though, and I don't know what incentive
structure you'd want to make sure you and I both put in the effort. My credibility is that I've posted
here for ~18 months. I'm willing to trust your effort level.
I would also take off one hour from my fee if you'd agree to 20-min vidchat interview about economics that I could put on my yt page.
In my time on SL I have mastered and taught to others:
-Making tattoos with varying levels of transparency.
-Making arbitrary 3D objects, including for costumes.
-Scripting. (I have written a banking system, listening bugs [!], and voice-throwers.)
But about the market problem: is there no Craigslist for a broader area of the anglosphere? I wouldn't
say the market has failed you until either a) that method gets no bites, or b) such a broader net does
not exist on craiglist (and is craiglist even part of the market...?)
Posted by: Person at Apr 10, 2008 12:07:57 PM
I second the "offer a price" suggestion. I am about to post a similar request re: bicycle tire changing tutorial to the CU triathlon listserv, and was imagining offering specifics like 60-90 minutes for $40 (rate negotiable), also specifying location near to campus. Cycling enthusiasts may have a more evangelical attitude than Second Lifers, however, towards helping newcomers enter the sport.
Posted by: Jenny at Apr 10, 2008 12:10:36 PM
But Tyler...hiring someone to give you lessons is so NOT "Web 2.0." You can't price such a thing because it is nonsensical in an "everything on the Internet" kind of world. You're expected to learn online, e.g. at
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Video_Tutorials
Posted by: Richard Berlin at Apr 10, 2008 12:17:34 PM
Markets exist. We just have to know where to find them.
There are farmers markets in many small towns [Falls Church, VA for example]. Many times these are on Saturday mornings. If I want a farmers market and I have no idea when and where it is can I say the market for local produce is failing me? No, because the sellers have done their part by meeting in a central location [on a regular day and time] where many buyers can get the greatest range of products.
There are some good comments by those who replied earlier.
Your market exists... keep looking for it.
Posted by: David Damore at Apr 10, 2008 12:35:52 PM
I use Second Life quite a lot myself.
When asking for a tutor, though....the real BASICS are learned VERY quickly - probably more quickly than you could even establish CONTACT with a real life tutor. Given the ease of the task, and the amount of respect you get from your commenters, your odd for a freebie are rather good.
For anything BEYOND the basics (building objects, scripting, doing animations, helping people act out their rape fantasies, etc.) you need to be kind of specific because many very experienced players might not ever have dealt with one specific sector. Of course, as somebody already mentioned, there are MANY resources available online.
Posted by: jens fiederer at Apr 10, 2008 12:40:20 PM
Tyler_Cowen is asking for someone to hold is hand through the learning process
and give it a "human touch". Video tutorials won't do that. SL for dummies
won't do that. A written intro definitely won't do that.
Posted by: Person at Apr 10, 2008 12:49:47 PM
Possibly because many think that your ad is misplaced. Maybe people think that you're surreptitiously seeking MFM but not wanting to put an ad in the Casual Encounters section of Craig's List and instead looking there.
Posted by: Me at Apr 10, 2008 12:57:58 PM
Probably because it's not a very good market for what you want...I'd guess you'd be better off finding someone local with some free time on a Second Life forum. (I can't point you to one any better than Google can, though, and I don't really know anyone who still uses SL regularly.)
Craigslist isn't that great for searching for services which only a small fraction of the site's audience could provide. Perhaps you overestimate how many people are really into SL and on Craigslist in the area? I have a few unusual skills and areas of knowledge; I would take a short-term gig using one of them if it were offered to me without my having to look for it. But I generally only search Craigslist postings when I have a reason to be actively looking for something else.
(As others suggest, this blog post will probably be more effective!)
There's also the possibility that since it's kind of a weird request, no one thought you were serious...
Posted by: Kat at Apr 10, 2008 1:00:39 PM
He wasn't entirely clear whether he wanted his tutor to be physically present (which would exclude a large sector, but is suggested by the fact he advertised in a LOCAL medium) or whether phone - or even SL presence would suffice.
I'm guessing most SL people would automatically assume the LATTER.
I'd be happy to talk him through the very beginning on the phone for about 30 minutes, just for the honor of TALKING to him....and by then he'd be able to find a more specific tutor (hey, just pick any patient Escort!) he could pay in Linden$. But I would not be willing to fly out to him unless there was a LOT of money involved.
Posted by: jens fiederer at Apr 10, 2008 1:01:57 PM
Oh - in case you haven't read much at ALL, an Escort is a Second Life prostitute. You'd need a patient one because some of them are not just in it for the money, and would feel deprived if they didn't get the sex - but most will probably be happy to help you along and go shopping with you (you want to get a cool shape and skin and clothes early on, to avoid discrimination - or maybe not, if you actually want to experience being seen as a not-quite-human-newbie by the less tolerant crowd).
Posted by: jens fiederer at Apr 10, 2008 1:07:24 PM
You need to say who you are in the ad. People would be happier helping a college professor, because then they know you're not some creep.
Advertise on campus instead.
Posted by: Macneil at Apr 10, 2008 1:13:15 PM
what you should do next is forget about second life and stop talking about it forever.
Posted by: ron at Apr 10, 2008 1:13:44 PM
Macneil and "me" have a point, by the way.
There is a lot of X-rated use of SL, so some people reading the ad might well be interpreting it as something like "I would like to have intercourse with my wife for the first time, but am not comfortable doing this without a coach standing by. Please contact me with your rates"
If you don't post a picture of you or your wife with that ad, the response is likely to be low.
Posted by: jens fiederer at Apr 10, 2008 1:18:52 PM
david haynes:
I've never personally used Quicken (though I use Quickbooks at work all the time), but I'm told that it's very useful once you get past the painfully steep learning curve. Take heart!
Posted by: d.cous. at Apr 10, 2008 1:20:29 PM
Maybe the presales effort is an obstacle. Since there is no market yet, a few terms of service must be invented and negociated. It is basically a transaction cost problem.
You could either offer compensation for the presales effort, or make your offer potentially attractive to stimulate potential bidders.
Posted by: Stephane at Apr 10, 2008 1:33:20 PM
be glad the market failed and enjoy the fact that you already have a life and don't need to pretend in "second life"
Posted by: oops at Apr 10, 2008 1:43:24 PM
Forget CraigList.
You're the #1 economics blogger.
Phone the Linden Lab P.R. people and tell them your inquiry.
-
Psstt... There is a NYT article on prediction markets...
www.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/technology/techspecial/09predict.html
-
Posted by: Chris Masse at Apr 10, 2008 2:02:44 PM
Dork
Posted by: at Apr 10, 2008 2:02:45 PM
Learn by Doing, Grasshopper.
Posted by: David Zetland at Apr 10, 2008 2:12:30 PM
It might work out better through a reverse auction. I don't think ebay has something like that, but I think there are some other sites out there that facilitate sellers bidding the price down for a good or service desired by a buyer. One of them is http://www.oltiby.com. The only problem I see is that if the site is not very well known you won't receive that many bids.
Posted by: Roxana at Apr 10, 2008 2:52:07 PM
This post has generated the wackiest range of responses I have ever seen on this blog...
Posted by: Astounded at Apr 10, 2008 3:28:15 PM
People advising AGAINST Second Life seem to have neglected to provide this link.
My guess is the professor is far more interested in how effective his blog is at hooking him up with info than in existing advertising. The ramifications are immense.
Posted by: jens fiederer at Apr 10, 2008 3:35:08 PM
Your ad sounds really creepy. See if you can make your ad funny or generally lighthearted. Also you may have better luck suggesting a price or some offer of services in kind like help with math homework.
Posted by: Noah Yetter at Apr 10, 2008 4:10:09 PM
Tyler,
Your real life seems too interesting to devote time to a fake, second one.
Posted by: Yancey Ward at Apr 10, 2008 4:19:28 PM
Add an image.
Posted by: Peter Forrester at Apr 10, 2008 4:50:08 PM
Corner solutions anyone?
Posted by: Philipw2 at Apr 10, 2008 4:51:09 PM
Obviously we need government intervention to solve this market failure. I believe Sweden has a soicalized system of education that teaches all citizens (and residents too) everything they need to know and quite a bit more just for fun.
Posted by: m at Apr 10, 2008 5:44:48 PM
I never consider ads like this because the transaction costs exceed any likely value.
Posted by: Lord at Apr 10, 2008 7:36:27 PM
There's got to be kids on campus that play it. Post your ad on a few flyers in the Johnson Center and I'm sure you'll get some replies.
Posted by: mjrmjr at Apr 10, 2008 8:35:41 PM
You've just gone to the wrong market.
Try Elance or Guru.com. There are even some guys selling themselves as "Second Life Consultants" .. well they are targetting corporates but I'm sure they could set you up with an avatar for a fee.
Posted by: missbossy at Apr 10, 2008 10:40:20 PM
Another possibility you haven't considered: that Second Life is a complete waste of time, thus nobody is willing to help you waste your time for any reasonable hourly rate.
Posted by: Russell Nelson at Apr 11, 2008 12:30:11 AM
I guess it means that if you want experts in second life you should go to second life and pay with the second life currency, just like when you need an expert in wasting someone else's money you just go to Washington and pay with washington currency. In free markets, supply meets demand, but you first need to get your butts at the market!
Posted by: Roberto at Apr 11, 2008 5:35:05 AM
The National Defense University (NDU) has organized the Federal Consortium for Virtual Worlds. Their next conference is as follows:
April 24-25, 2008
National Defense University
Washington, DC
Federal Virtual Worlds Expo: Implementing the Future
http://www.ndu.edu/IRMC/fedconsortium.html
On 23 April they will run Second Life Preconference Workshops.
See you there!
Posted by: P_Rank at Apr 11, 2008 7:07:01 AM
I think, like David, that the problem is not the market itself per se. Remember the history of money. We developed money to solve the double coincidence of wants problem. Well, unfortunately, we still have a single coincidence of wants problem. You need to find who has what you need and they need to find you. The question is: how do we reduce these search costs? I'd guess this is what marketing people do?
Posted by: Tom at Apr 11, 2008 8:04:34 AM
Aha! Market failure->Second Best: We clearly need a federal program to provide SL education. If we don't, there will soon develop a digital divide between those who can master SL and those who can't. Since the future is in cyberspace, we will have to subsidize meatspace dwellers. Federal SL training is the least expensive alternative.
Posted by: Eric H at Apr 11, 2008 9:24:25 AM
wow.. may be you should post it in the secondlife's craigslist...
but seriously, do you think craigslist is the right exchange?
Posted by: Chandoo at Apr 11, 2008 1:25:07 PM
There isn't likely to be much of a market in this because SL tutoring in the basics is already undercut by the FREE help you get upon entering the world. Once you complete the orientation steps you're dumped on a Help Island where volunteers are usually hanging around to do just what you asked for at no cost. Given this, anyone looking at your ad would have to assume you're either helpless (not willing to even *try* SL before posting) or asking for something advanced but unspecified, perhaps like inworld scripting or business development.
Posted by: Ananda at Apr 11, 2008 3:24:58 PM
I think Ananda summarizes it well.
If you posted an ad asking for tutors on how to sneeze, you would get few serious replies - but that doesn't mean there is any lack of people capable of sneezing.
Posted by: jens fiederer at Apr 11, 2008 4:13:20 PM
Someone sent me your post here because they think I'm a brilliant Second Lifer, which is untrue. Still, I've been building and cruising around SL for over a year. I agree with the comments here that SL is quite intuitive and you probably wont need much tutoring... Anyhow, I'm in Alexandria and would be happy to come show you the ropes. I can do all the basic stuff. I would think that after one session in-world help would be sufficient for almost anything, so I suggest you establish a one-time fee for an extended three hour session... I dunno, maybe $100 bucks or so. Here's a machima of me at the Burning Life camp I made in-world. I made almost all of the stuff you see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt6VyoHMTHA Drop me a note if you'd like to discuss further or say hi to me in SL... my avatar is named Pex Petrov.
Posted by: Alec at Apr 11, 2008 6:06:46 PM
jens fiederer is absolutely right. The basics are picked up pretty easily. Anything beyond the basics can be so diverse that this could be like dropping into the real world and saying "hey how do i use this body thing?"
The best way to get help if you are stuck is to ask people in world. Go to a club and tell people you're new, they will ask you to join their group and hopefully they will be helpful.
Posted by: Bandu Schwartzman at Apr 11, 2008 9:19:53 PM
I only wish Tyler was a Second Lifer when Linden Labs outlawed interest payments and all the banks collapsed. I lost a little in the virtual stock market myself. It would have been interesting to see his reaction.
Posted by: Bandu Schwartzman at Apr 11, 2008 9:23:29 PM
Learn to play world of warcraft instead. Second Life's popularity is a lame media creation as any young internet nerd can tell you.
Posted by: eric mcfadden at Apr 12, 2008 3:34:31 PM
Contact one of the computer science teachers at Thomas Jefferson High School. They have a bunch of brilliant kids that know Second Life quite well and the kids will work relatively cheaply. If you wait until late May, exams will be coming up and you will have to wait until late June. The school is located on Braddock Rd. in Fairfax County.
Posted by: techreseller at Apr 14, 2008 3:39:28 PM
