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Kirkland Homogenized Milk
Did you ever buy a carton of milk and find that, upon pouring the milk into your cereal bowl, it spills out onto the table? At the same time the milk runs down the side of the carton and appears to drip out of the bottom. Is this spillage a temporary aberration in the steadiness of the wrist? (But it spilt for Natasha as well.) Is it a design flaw in just a few of the cartons? If so, exactly what went wrong on the assembly line? Or does the product work this way on purpose? Does there exist an angle at which the milk can be poured without spillage?
Does this mean we won't all evolve into uploads?
Posted by Tyler Cowen on April 2, 2008 at 07:15 AM in Food and Drink | Permalink
Comments
Ha! From your description, I'm guessing this happens on the first pour of a full container. I would guess it's a combination of the low angle and that the milk doesn't, as it were, build speed inside the container. Liquid adherence/coherence takes effect and you're left with a soggy WSJ and dry Crunch Berries.
That you're just clumsy.
Posted by: Kyle M at Apr 2, 2008 7:43:04 AM
Does this mean we won't all evolve into uploads?
Yes. Yes, it does.
Posted by: Zippy at Apr 2, 2008 7:49:24 AM
Don't drink milk, but I do drink coffee and this happens all the time.
Why, oh why, can't someone make a coffee pot that pours without this happening!?!
Posted by: Bob at Apr 2, 2008 8:03:20 AM
I've been screaming about this every day for months since Kirkland milk switched to their more square containers. My wife claims I am an incompetent pourer. I think their container shape makes it very hard to know at what angle the milk will come out, she claims I'm a moron. Consider yourself lucky that Natasha has the same issue you do. I'm particularly unlucky as my wife drinks 2-3 gallons a week and we have a baby, so I'm only going to be pouring more milk in the future.
Posted by: Dave at Apr 2, 2008 8:05:20 AM
'At the same time the milk runs down the side of the carton and appears to drip out of the bottom.'
You have to do it quickly - i.e. get the carton from the upright to the pouring position as fast as you can. That way no milk will spill down the side of the carton.
This doesn't solve the 'what is the ideal pouring angle' problem, but hey - start buying milk in plastic bottles.
Posted by: datacharmer at Apr 2, 2008 8:29:39 AM
Add me to the list of moronic customer who cannot find an efficient pouring method for the new Price Club (I still call it PC, not Costco) milk cartons. It is the primary reason my family has stopped buying milk there and we buy it at Wegman’s with other grocery items.
If anyone from PC’s marketing department is doing any Voice of the Customer research they may want to link to this and get some good intuitive feedback on the new cartons. However, from seeing the carts full of the new cartons in PC checkout lines I’m not sure their milk sales volume has gone down any, and may have even improved, as increasing prices for dairy products and butterfat make families increasingly look for bargains irrespective of spillage from the new cartons.
Posted by: Dave Richardson at Apr 2, 2008 9:02:02 AM
Does this happen to you with both the traditional carton with the wide mouth and the kind with the spout, such as you find on Horizon organic? They solved this problem with laundary detergent by moving the spout to the bottom, which makes more sense.
Packaging fascinates me. If you watch an overseas cooking show like Jamie Oliver's, you realize foods are packaged in different ways through the world.
Posted by: Ted Craig at Apr 2, 2008 9:09:45 AM
Better yet, try the 3-pack of Kirkland organic Low Fat Milk. Comes in paper containers, and the expiration date is usually 4 to 5 weeks away....
Does this mean you've been to Costco in the US after visiting one in Mexico?
We need a post about the Costco food court on TCEDG.
Posted by: chug at Apr 2, 2008 9:18:46 AM
Impulse is everything...begin and end the pour as suddenly as possible.
Posted by: Bill at Apr 2, 2008 9:30:01 AM
True cereal fans buy the gallon plastic jugs, and not those ill-pouring cardboard monstrosities...
Posted by: cure at Apr 2, 2008 9:32:48 AM
I kept thinking that the carton was somehow better and, after I got used to it, I would prefer it.
Costco/Kirkland does a great job with their private label line overall.
But after four cartons and numerous family complaints, I'm figuring this was just a mess up. Or, mess all over my kitchen, in this case.
Posted by: zbicyclist at Apr 2, 2008 9:47:18 AM
Here's a picture of the container.
Is the problem caused by an air pocket?
Posted by: 8 at Apr 2, 2008 10:11:28 AM
Agree with Chug -- it's time for a review on the Costco food court.
Posted by: Yan Li at Apr 2, 2008 10:16:59 AM
It's all part of the vegan conspiracy to get you to quit drinking cow's milk.
Posted by: mith at Apr 2, 2008 10:30:24 AM
To pour easily, (aqueous) liquids have to be moving with enough momentum to overcome the effect of surface tension, which tends to make them cling to the side of the container rather than fall away from it. Narrow openings (such as the corner of a cardboard milk container or a poorly designed coffee pot) make this tougher, due (I think) to the narrowing of the stream which decreases its mass and/or velocity.
In other words, pour faster.
Posted by: B at Apr 2, 2008 10:38:44 AM
If that is indeed the container, it seems the problem is the mouth is too wide. You could always transfer the milk to a better container after purchase.
Posted by: Ted Craig at Apr 2, 2008 10:45:29 AM
Just don't cry about it.
Posted by: Michael Martin at Apr 2, 2008 11:09:45 AM
Jab a spigot near the bottom of the container.
Syphon out the first couple of cups.
Or buy soy milk -- only babies are meant to drink cow milk :)
Posted by: BlogReader at Apr 2, 2008 11:13:35 AM
Hilarious! It isn't just me! After a few weeks of spilled milk, I told my wife that we were no longer going to buy milk from Costco anymore, even though it is cheaper. Not having to deal with that awful design is worth $1 per gallon or whatever the difference is.
Posted by: Bob Montgomery at Apr 2, 2008 11:40:56 AM
Add me to the list of those who think the squarish plastic jugs aren't any good for pouring (although I'm sure they're much better for stacking on pallets).
According to Costco, I am meant to pour this jug by standing the jug on the counter and tilting it. Either Costco must have very wide glasses or very slippery counters - a crucial feature of pouring milk into a vessel is that the milk has to all go in the same place. If you pivot the jug around a bottom edge, obviously that won't happen.
Posted by: Sam at Apr 2, 2008 11:59:02 AM
If what 8. above links to is right, it looks like pouring faster to prevent the 'crawl' down the side of the container will likely increase the spill. And I'm pretty sure the only way to prevent the spill is to pour slower to allow air go into the container as milk is leaving it, thus allowing the crawl.
The question then is: how would you like to waste your milk?
I say buy another brand of milk. If enough people do, Kirkland will create a focus group and in a little while, change the container...
Posted by: disaggregated at Apr 2, 2008 12:02:10 PM
There is a very simple solution to milk spillage: put your receiving container up against the pour spout. Then you can pour as slowly as you want and all the milk will flow into the container. At the end there will be at most one drop of milk lost. If you have a cardboard container with a square spout, round off the pouring spout with your finger first.
Posted by: Nathan Whitehead at Apr 2, 2008 12:39:21 PM
I'm not sure I have a preference one way or the other after trying the Kirkland milk jugs. They aren't bad, but are definitely different.
Posted by: nickfinity at Apr 2, 2008 1:12:19 PM
It's a problem with where the mouth of the container lies with regard to the rest of the top. A few things are happening.
Since milk (or water, same same) adheres to surfaces weakly, there is obviously a critical angle below which pouring the water out of the jug (sorry if I'm going to call it water from here on out) will cause some of it to dribble down the side (and keep an increasingly smaller proportion of the total flow from its normal course--it's just like laminar flow along a surface). This problem exists regardless of the type of carton you use. the only thing you can hope to accomplish is design the jug such that the angle the jug is held with respect to the dish is not the angle that the water issues from the mouth. This is partially why you have the square cartons with the fold out mouths.
Problem is (as has been pointed out above) if you go too fast you don't have too many choices on how to do that. If you try to force it with a jug like kirkland's you get something that is called (sometimes) the free surface effect. Move the jug too fast, and the weight of the jug shifts forward. Since the mouth of the just is in the CORNER (d'oh) and not raised that makes it easy for the added momentum to force more water out that you might have wanted in the first place. Basically, you have a solid container and a dynamic substance inside, tip the container and the substance (as it moves due to gravity and resents movement due to inertia and the constraints of the chamber) moves TOWARD the direction tipped, then rebounds away. It isn't a righting motion. With a hole at the top (http://www.tulpehockenwater.com/images/products/gallon_big.jpg), this is less of a problem, but it is still a problem.
Posted by: Adam Hyland at Apr 2, 2008 1:36:09 PM
I have been complaining about this for a month now, my wife says I am just dumb, but if you think about it....
If you spill 1/2 of an ounce every time you pour, then over the course of a year, let's say you spill about 4 gallons. That's 4 MORE gallons you are going to BUY. Costco is getting you to buy more milk by making you pour / spill a little out at a time.
Posted by: Bald Sasquatch at Apr 2, 2008 1:51:48 PM
It's God's way of telling you to give up breakfast cereal.
Posted by: Michael Blowhard at Apr 2, 2008 2:19:45 PM
this one belongs on the other blog
Posted by: dhalsim at Apr 2, 2008 4:21:45 PM
The Teapot Effect is well known in physics. It refers to when a liquid pours down the side of the vessel it's in (and then eventually down your forearm) rather than into the vessel you're aiming for. It's especially bad when pouring from cups into things, or from anything lacking a proper spout.
The property of adhesion makes the liquid want to keep rolling down the surface it's on. Various forces and arrows for momentum would help, but I can't blog that in these comments very easily. Suffice to say, a proper spout would make the liquid have to move UPHILL as it rounded the edge of the surface, and this would be counteracted by gravity, and then the other elements of hte liquid stream would then pull the liquid down as well.
So old teapots with that funny little tongue at the very tip of the spout were especially good for preventing this. Picture it tilted to some angle like 50 degree or so--it would almost have to climb straight up to stay along the edge of the spout's surface.
When you lack a good spout, you must over come it with velocity. Essentially throwing as much liquid down as fast as you can, with momentum of the whole liquid mass trying to do make the liquid move "down" as fast as you can--with more force than gravity would have on a little dV of the liquid. If there's too much milk in the spout, then for you to make a good thrust of velocity, you have the milk spilling over the sides of the spout, and running down more of the surface.
Posted by: mouse at Apr 2, 2008 4:50:12 PM
Looking at the picture of the stupid bottle, spilling looks fairly likely.
In order to create a "spout", where the opening of the bottle's surface would force the liquid to run uphill, you have to turn the bottle almost sideways. But given where the spout is offcenter, sideways is enough to pour out nearly all of the milk. The only way to keep milk from pouring out en masse is to tip the milk bottle but never very far over--so the bottle is at, say, 30-50 from straight up. But then the surface of the "spout" is always a preference for the liquid--and it runs down the side rather than preferring to break free and form its own stream.
Posted by: mouse at Apr 2, 2008 4:54:24 PM
the problem is exacerbated by trying to pour only 1/2 inch of milk from a full gallon jug into my cup of coffee. solution at my house is to pour some milk into a 1-quart ceramic pitcher, which looks better on the breakfast table anyways, and has a decent pour spout. Besides, the pitcher sweats less than the plastic jug, keeping the table (and the newspaper) drier.
Posted by: anomyse at Apr 2, 2008 11:53:45 PM
Nothing beats a nice glass bottle of milk!
Posted by: RunColo at Apr 3, 2008 12:03:46 AM
As soon as someone designs a little adapter spout (like the kind made to prevent this problem when pouring wine) that you can use instead of the cap, this problem will be solved, and that person will likely make lots of money.
Posted by: Matthew at Apr 3, 2008 2:24:27 AM
Move to Canada and buy your milk in bags. For whatever reason this problem doesn't happen with bags.
Posted by: at Apr 3, 2008 9:28:45 AM
It's called the Coanda Effect. See the following helpful article for an explanation: http://environment.newscientist.com/article/mg16121708.000-the-last-word.html.
Posted by: Nav at Apr 3, 2008 12:34:57 PM
If you try to follow above advice and pour faster, you might find the milk "sputters" and splashes out, making a mess. To prevent that, punch a hole in the top of the carton to let air in.
Posted by: Linkt at Apr 3, 2008 2:59:43 PM
Lift the bowl.
Posted by: Jeff Brown at Apr 7, 2008 6:16:37 PM
