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Heads in the Sand
That's by Matt Yglesias (son of Rafael Yglesias) and the subtitle is How the Republicans Screw Up Foreign Policy and Foreign Policy Screws Up the Democrats. Anyone who reads books on foreign policy should buy this book. Most of all it is a critique of recent practice and a defense of liberal internationalism. He calls for negotiating with Iran, not digging in deeper in Iraq, and more generally accepting multilateral frameworks for the use of American military power. I agree with the policy recommendations though I would package them differently. I view liberal internationalism as a kind of noble lie which will in any case be superseded by American exceptionalism, most of all because of differing European and American experiences in WWII and differing degrees of religiosity. Rightly or wrongly, Americans are more likely to see menaces abroad and of course America is the only country that can even try to do much about them. Of course we've shown we're not up to the job, noting that Afghanistan (a just war, I might add, and do note it commanded international support for a while but that turned out not to matter) is probably going even worse than Iraq by standards of long-run viability. If our interventions are counterproductive then constraints on those interventions are beneficial and in that regard we can embrace internationalism for practical reasons.
But I can't have a high opinion of internationalism per se, perhaps because I've spent too much time actually working in multilateral institutions. The incentive is to negotiate at the margin, and eke out a somewhat better deal for one's nation and carry victories to diplomatic superiors back home, rather than to actually solve the international problem in cooperative fashion. If there is any good solution to be had, the large number of negotiating parties usually requires America to play von Stackelberg leader (remember Yugoslavia?), noting that our ability to do this has broken down for reasons that go beyond the failures of Bush. The EU now precommits to a greater role in global decisions and many more countries are wealthy and have global interests. Media spin means that no one wants to take too many sacrifices. I think once a Democrat assumes the Presidency it will become clear just how much the old order has broken down, probably forever. European diplomats were cynical in the first place and don't forget that the Security Council still has two members whose influence is more or less pure poison. I can't imagine what liberal internationalism means, for instance, when it comes to allocating the thawing bits of the Arctic and the associated oil wealth. What will happen if/when the Russians simply try to grab more than international conventions allow them?
Note, by the way, that Saddam and Chirac really were gift-giving friends; that's not just a right-wing fantasy. At some level American voters understand much of this, albeit in excessively provincial terms, and they simply won't, in the electoral sense, allow the Democrats to inhabit the old space of internationalism.
In game-theoretic terms I would say the key question is what is the "threat point" America adopts when it offers to join international coalitions. Whatever Matt's answer might be (his book is not written in that sort of lingo) that is now the key question, noting that whatever threat point you specify you have to be willing to live with. One paradox is that the more internationalist your default threat point is, the less effective a country actually will be in leading an international coalition.
In short, I'm all for talk of liberal internationalism as long as we don't take it too seriously on its own terms. My prediction is that, doctrinally, Matt will eventually end up somewhere else, even though his practical advice is very sound and very well articulated and doesn't much need to be changed. I hereby sentence him to one full month spent working at the United Nations.
Posted by Tyler Cowen on April 12, 2008 at 06:48 AM in Books | Permalink
Comments
When John Bolton - a noted derider of the UN - is your *rep* to the UN, doesn't that signal your unwillingness to work with others?
Rather than dismissing internationalism out of hand, we should be focusing on better strategies and coalition building. In case you haven't noticed, America's standing in the world ain't what it used to be.
I worry about who might come to our defense should that time ever come.
Posted by: meter at Apr 12, 2008 8:55:48 AM
I was going to write a long snarky post about American exceptionalism and its delusions but the bottom line is that it doesn't really matter anymore what Americans say in their political discourse and amongst themselves about how great America is and how its people are so morally superior to everyone else and how it is a shining example and how blah blah blah it is guided by God and etc and &c.. It doesn't matter because one , the whole Iraq debacle, Katrina, the credit crisis, school shootings, corruption in politics, murder rates, Britney Spears and the other grotesque displays of flagrant self-indulgence and incompetence have basically made it very difficult to anyone else who was inclined either thru conviction or cynicism to believe in or proselytize about this rubbish to continue doing so and two, as a matter of fact Iraq has shown that America's military power at the end cannot be applied to somehow (thru might makes right) make any of this propaganda any more real.
The entire world took note of how incompetent the Americans were in Iraq, and how they were able to barely salvage a fragile equilibrium by negotiating with the Sunni insurgents and paying them off, in complete opposition of course with the nationalistic rhetoric back home which continues to propagandize about how America will never negotiate with terrorists (yeah, right) and about how "America is winning the war".
But the bottom line is that it doesn't matter what you believe, its what others believe with you. That's the Kantian heritage of the enlightenment, and I think that this is what Matt Yglesias is saying. So I'm sure American politics will continue to be dominated, especially on the right, by Americanism, visions of grandeur, the wholsesale stereotyping of others and the aggrandizement of the American experience, and the incessant calls to interfere in other people's affairs, and in the past, say 5 years ago, I would have said that this is dangerous, but the sorry truth is America as a source of exceptionalism has no more credibility, and more importantly it doesn't have the means to make good on these threats.
This could have been a new American century - but nationalism and over-reaching and the general and bewildering abandonment of common sense judgment (with for example the belief that Americans somehow are different and better than the millions of humans that walked this earth before them) has made this more than improbable.
As far as international institutions like the UN, hostility to them in the US has always bewildered me because they are seen in the rest of the world, as indeed they are, as American creations that mostly reflect an American view of the world and that do America's bidding.
Posted by: Leonard at Apr 12, 2008 9:05:00 AM
Brittney Spears, Leonard?
Posted by: josh at Apr 12, 2008 9:43:10 AM
This could have been a new American century - but nationalism and over-reaching and the general and bewildering abandonment of common sense judgment (with for example the belief that Americans somehow are different and better than the millions of humans that walked this earth before them) has made this more than improbable.
Well said, but I disagree with one word - nationalism. It's more of an internationalism - it's certainly not self-interested Nationalism. What explains why we give a crap whether Putin is a democrat or not, what the Chinese do with Tibet, whether Serbs are killing muslims or the other way around. In the long run, the explanation for Iraq that will make the U.S. look least bad is that we over-reacted to 9/11, but otherwise why are we using our military to solve disputes in the Middle East?
The only place we've learned any lessons is Africa - we finally figured out that there's nothing we can do there - but we still think we can mold the rest of the world into our image? People like Yglesias think it's ok to drop bombs on Serbs but not on Iraq. Presumably, all we need to do is make sure that Yglesias-like people are in charge, then we'll never have to again worry about getting that subtle distinction wrong. It would be a lot easier if Americans decided that problems in the rest of the world are not our problems, and we do not need to send our military across the globe uncovering and suppressing phantom threats to our security.
Posted by: ziel at Apr 12, 2008 9:54:19 AM
Tyler,
Remember that you are in the USA, not Guantanamo Bay. The prohibition of cruel and unusual punishments applies.
More broadly, are not your categories a bit dated? Look at the way we negotiate as compared to ten years ago. We pay a good deal more respect to China, to India and even to Russia and the EU than we did then. American dominance of the world is just beginning to seep away, and no one 21st century power is likely to dominate in the way the USA has done. The prime US interest is in building up more of an international legal order to protect us in the threats and strains of a world which we cannot isolate ourselves from and cannot dominate. That is not classical liberal internationalism. For the foreseeable future, any workable and useful international legal order is likley to protect a good many repulsive things. But what matters to us is that it is likely to protect us.
I just wish that we had a better foundation to build on than the UN. Since we haven't, we had better do what we can to stabilise and strengthen that foundation.
Posted by: David Heigham at Apr 12, 2008 10:41:46 AM
On working for the UN.
I have a Canadian and a Swedish friend who worked for the UN. Two very idealistic young people, who thought they could make a difference.
It took both of them 6 months to get throughly disillusioned and cynical about the UN and you could feel the disgust, when they talked about some of the higher ranking officals and their doings.
Posted by: Jüri Saar at Apr 12, 2008 11:45:56 AM
Tyler does raise an interesting comparison with Afghanistan and Iraq. Unilateral action in Iraq has been a debacle. But once we started sharing the burden in Iraq with the international community Afghanistan regressed and became a mess as well. Bottom line, it *IS* in the international community's interest to castigate the US for overreaching, imperialism, etc., but it's not in their interest to actually help with American endeavors they support.
Why should the US care about getting the international community's support when all that comes with it is some half-assed support that can be pulled back at any point?
I do think the US needs to work with, rather than against the international current, but let's not be idealistic about the UN and the IC; the US isn't spurning the extended helping hand of the world. The world wants the US to provide public goods at the lowest cost possible to the rest of the world, and it wants to tell the US what public goods should come first.
The US needs to challenge these countries to give as much as they gab.
Posted by: Publius at Apr 12, 2008 12:39:04 PM
Great post, I loved the last part, Nobody does condescension like Cowen.
Won't it be hard to take our threat point seriously since it could change every four years?
Posted by: sourcreamus at Apr 12, 2008 2:01:53 PM
The world wants the US to provide public goods at the lowest cost possible to the rest of the world, and it wants to tell the US what public goods should come first. The US needs to challenge these countries to give as much as they gab.
How about instead we just stop providing these "public goods" (which has got to be the best euphemism yet for firing missiles from jets and shooting a billion rounds of ammo)? Wouldn't that be a lot easier? Maybe the "international community" doesn't feel particularly threatened by events in Afghanistan or Iraq - maybe NATO is only in Afghanistan at all because of U.S. pressure. Maybe it's time we try something new - if Britain or France or Germany gets down on their hands and knees and begs us to fire some missiles somewhere, we think it over real hard and let them come up with the proper incentive. Otherwise, we keep our soldiers home and our hardware stowed away until a real enemy shows up.
Posted by: ziel at Apr 12, 2008 2:10:20 PM
Publius got it right. Besides that, there is a positive psychological aspect of ‘not being liked’ which is that rogue countries actually fear you.
During the cold war the US seemed to be nicer but that was pretty much because the USSR was around as a comparison. For rogue states and dictators, the US seemed like a smaller threat because they knew the US had its hands full dealing with the Russians. Khadafy, Saddam, Khomeini and others could challenge the US up until a point and get away with it. When the cold war ended the US continue to allow this to go on and things changed only when Al Qaeda forced their hand.
Now it might be true that direct intervention doesn’t get you exactly what you want, but to assume that things will be worse is a fallacy; first because you don’t know how bad Iraq would be now with Saddam in power and second because you don’t know how everybody else would be behaving if Saddam was still there. Would Hamas be more or less empowered if Iraq’s oil money was still financing suicide bombers? Would North Korea be testing more long range missiles by now?
How much is worth for the US that these guys are afraid of you? Is it worth pissing off some of your allies? Is it worth 4 thousand soldiers and some billion of dollars? This is all hard to tell. The only thing we know for sure is that Al Qaeda followed us to Iraq (which by the way is also more valuable to them than Afghanistan) and they want to fight for it with all they got.
Now regarding the liberal options being proposed, I would say that Chamberlain, Daladier, and all the other wise man that let WW2 happen the way it did should have sealed the debate. But apparently people don’t really know their history.
Posted by: FYI at Apr 12, 2008 2:30:38 PM
IMO, the idea of benign military intervention is absurd on its face. If politicians really believed in all the things they claim to believe in, they'd at least try and get some sort of democratic approval for their actions. When was the last time they polled the people of a nation they were thinking about invading or sanctioning? They don't of course, because they have no incentive to. They have all the power and all the guns. Foreigners can't vote, so they don't need nearly as much in the way of propaganda campaigns in order to initiate violence as they do with domestic policies.
"No taxation without representation" has a nice ring to it, but I think it takes a back seat to "no bombing and starving without representation".
Posted by: Grant at Apr 12, 2008 2:34:07 PM
Publius got it right. Yes, in your imaginary world.
During the cold war the US seemed to be nicer but that was pretty much because the USSR was around as a comparison. For rogue states and dictators, the US seemed like a smaller threat because they knew the US had its hands full dealing with the Russians. Khadafy, Saddam, Khomeini and others could challenge the US up until a point and get away with it. When the cold war ended the US continue to allow this to go on and things changed only when Al Qaeda forced their hand.
Could you be any closer to 180 degrees off? During the cold war, small, annoying countries (ie., "rogue" states) were a problem because they could play the Soviet Union and us off each other in our global struggle. We won that struggle, in case you didn't notice - our enemy - the only country in the world that could both pose a serious danger to us and was expressly dedicated to world domination - is gone. So now these little, annoying countries should cease to bother us. They can't harm us in any way. Yet you and Publius and the halls of power in Washington allow these two-bit chest-thumpers to keep you awake at night.
Look, after 9/11 we all got pretty pissed off and we determined to strike out against Islamic extremism in all its forms. Punishing the Taliban was was a perfectly fine reaction (even though the Taliban probably couldn't have actually turned over Osama Bin Laden, we sent a message). We were stupid to invade Iraq but most of us just didn't know better. We've had 5 years now to figure out Hussein in fact posed no threat, that the dictatorships of the Middle East are pretty incapable of doing anything beyond keeping themselves in power (and they barely do that) and that even Israel's power dwarfs that of any of its supposedly threatening neighbors (unless you think that the dozen or so Israelis that are killed each year by suicide bombers constitutes a threat to vital U.S. interests).
there is a positive psychological aspect of ‘not being liked’ which is that rogue countries actually fear you.
I'll grant you that North Korea fits the bill of a "rogue" nation. Are they afraid of us? Are they acting afraid?
Not being liked, though, may not be the best strategy when you're racking up a $750 trade deficit each and every year, even when the dollar is in the tank. Who cares how big our debt is to China, Saudi Arabia and Europe - Qaddafi's afraid of us!!
Posted by: ziel at Apr 12, 2008 3:45:28 PM
Of course I meant $750 billion trade deficit.
Grant: "No taxation without representation" has a nice ring to it, but I think it takes a back seat to "no bombing and starving without representation".
That would be an improvement, but do you act when you have 51% approval? Two-thirds? What if the approval is all from one tribe or group (like, say Shias) and not from another (maybe Sunnis)? Much easier to just get out of that game altogether.
Posted by: ziel at Apr 12, 2008 3:57:19 PM
"Now it might be true that direct intervention doesn’t get you exactly what you want, but to assume that things will be worse is a fallacy; first because you don’t know how bad Iraq would be now with Saddam in power and second because you don’t know how everybody else would be behaving if Saddam was still there. Would Hamas be more or less empowered if Iraq’s oil money was still financing suicide bombers? Would North Korea be testing more long range missiles by now?"
a) Talk about fallacious logic.
b) Sorry, but why do I care about either scenario? I am American, not Israeli or South Korean. Do I need to explain what kind of international policies we would have to adapt for N. Korea not to be a threat to us whatsoever? (Hint: a third grader could tell you).
"The only thing we know for sure is that Al Qaeda followed us to Iraq..."
At least you're not spouting the Republican line that Saddam was in bed with A.Q.
Posted by: meter at Apr 12, 2008 4:40:50 PM
Now regarding the liberal options being proposed, I would say that Chamberlain, Daladier, and all the other wise man that let WW2 happen the way it did should have sealed the debate. But apparently people don’t really know their history.
Ah channeling Krathhammer and Bill O'Reilly, not a great strategy if you want to be convincing. In the wake of the bloodbath of WWI it was absolutely rational to try to avoid war. Of course all the wars and other horrors of history that were avoided can't be cited to make a case for moderation since they did not occur! The case for Munich is made all the stronger by the horror of the 5 years that followed. It would take a perverse mind to argue that trying to avoid the destruction of Europe and the death on millions was irrational or that delaying the conflict by months marginally increased the lethalness and destructiveness of the conflict to the point where that added destruction outweighed the slaughter that could be safely predicted at Munich. Lay the blame where it belongs, on Hitler, not Chamberlain.
Posted by: leonard at Apr 12, 2008 4:42:06 PM
Ziel
Let me see if I understand you correctly: it was ok to worry about rogue states in the cold war (even though none actually ended up attacking us) but it is completely unnecessary to worry about them now unless we are talking about Afghanistan since they hit us with the biggest attack ever in American soil?
Now of course you could be right about Iraq not being the right place to be. But when you say that we were ‘clueless’ what you actually mean is that we attacked them based on faulty intelligence; the same faulty intelligence that allowed 9/11 to happen in the first place. I can imagine that, had we identified the threat correctly and attacked the Talaben before 9/11, we could have a similar conversation now. But in this little parallel world you would probably be telling me that Iraq and its WMDs (ask the UN!) would be a much more logical target to hit than the poorest country in the world and a bunch of crazy Talebans who wouldn’t be able to hurt us even if they wanted to (all that talk about using airplanes to hit buildings is government fear mongering, right?).
This kind of discussion is really endless and we will only be able to judge the Iraq war somewhere in the future.
Posted by: FYI at Apr 12, 2008 4:45:16 PM
Meter,
Ah, so you don’t want us to get involved at all. South Korea is a dump compared to the North right? Another revolutionary idea that worked beautifully in WW2.
Leonard,
Don’t get me wrong: the biggest problem in Europe was Hitler. Chamberlain and his comrades were just part of the problem, but an important part for that matter. Had they been more aggressive (especially after Anschluss) we could have had a much less bloody conflict. This is not a speculation about time as much as pure common sense when talking about military strategy and momentum.
It is true that some conflicts can be avoided with diplomacy and you can’t really say that the US doesn’t try this tactic currently. We could have been using more of those little nuclear devices around North Korea and Iran, but so far we haven’t.
And if you want to be minimally honest about Iraq, you can also say that the main problem there was Saddam and not the US. After all, if he really wanted to he could have avoided the war.
Posted by: FYI at Apr 12, 2008 4:58:28 PM
FYI,
Good analogy. North Korea ca. 2008 is exactly the same as Germany ca. 1939.
Any other prescient insights to share with us?
Posted by: meter at Apr 12, 2008 5:07:41 PM
You're missing the point if you think the only public goods the US has provided is military intervention. In addition, personally I would like to see the US military more in places like the Sudan and less in Iraq, but of course, African genocides will never prompt our dear international friends to provide the "proper incentive" for us to intervene. Is that just? Not judging from my western morality. Is that smart? I would argue no, as I think it is in the developed world's long-term interest to stabilize failed states... but, of course, the international community will not provide the "proper incentive" to provide significant aid (not necessarily military intervention, could be providing expertise and resources to progressive regional actors).
But Europe and the rest of the developed world isn't really concerned with those poor people who are dying all over the world, even in American conflict zones. Let's be real; these countries are more afraid of immigration than Americans and oppress anyone who dares to live in their country who looks or worships differently (here's looking at you Germany, France....)
Let's be realistic here. I don't think the US is perfect, and it certainly needs to do a 180 from the past seven years; but the international community is a mess, and there's no reason to trust it's judgment.
Posted by: Publis at Apr 12, 2008 5:07:58 PM
FYI,
Good analogy. North Korea ca. 2008 is exactly the same as Germany ca. 1939.
Any other prescient insights to share with us?
Posted by: meter at Apr 12, 2008 5:10:19 PM
"But Europe and the rest of the developed world isn't really concerned with those poor people who are dying all over the world, even in American conflict zones. Let's be real; these countries are more afraid of immigration than Americans and oppress anyone who dares to live in their country who looks or worships differently (here's looking at you Germany, France....)
Let's be realistic here. I don't think the US is perfect, and it certainly needs to do a 180 from the past seven years; but the international community is a mess, and there's no reason to trust it's judgment."
I would agree with all of that. So let's change the landscape.
Step one is governmental leadership which will resist the urge to stick America's unilateral nose in everyone else's business and which will at least give the appearance of an interest in international coalition-building.
The best defense is a good defense.
Posted by: meter at Apr 12, 2008 5:19:24 PM
FYI - it was ok to worry about rogue states in the cold war (even though none actually ended up attacking us) but it is completely unnecessary to worry about them now unless we are talking about Afghanistan since they hit us with the biggest attack ever in American soil? - Yes, because it was the Soviet Union we were battling, and both of us were using third world countries to fight the war by proxy. Afghanistan did not attack us - 19 Arabs attacked us, acting totally within our own country, because we allowed them to. All the Taliban did was fail to turn over Osama Bin Laden - which is why we attacked and overthrew them. Attacking them prior to 9/11 would have done little to keep 19 Arabs living in the United States from doing what they did. To do that we'd have had to have done the unthinkable - treat Arab men as being deserving of extra scrutiny at airports.
Publius - you're kidding around with us, right? Let's be real; these countries are more afraid of immigration than Americans and oppress anyone who dares to live in their country who looks or worships differently (here's looking at you Germany, France....) You mean like Arab Muslims who hijack jets and steer them into buildings? Or plant bombs in crowded subway stations? Or blow up buses? Who could be so intolerant as to fear such people! Yes, being suspicious of Muslim immigrants is horrifically evil - much better to maim and kill thousands of women and children and tens of thousands of their young men with bombs, missiles and stray bullets right there where they live than to - wait, I can barely utter the words - enact immigration restrictions or engage in profiling - there, I said it.
Well, I guess that's the way you think - I think it's madness, but judging by the prevailing view in Washington and in the press, I guess I'm the kook.
Posted by: ziel at Apr 12, 2008 6:57:18 PM
Tyler,
This post sounds very interesting, so perhaps someday you will translate it for us into something approaching English?
For example,
- "requires America to play von Stackelberg leader"
- "Note, by the way, that Saddam and Chirac really were gift-giving friends"
- "threat point"
If you are not up to explaining this jargon to the uninitiated, can you at least provide links to webpages giving some hint of what these terms mean?
Posted by: Steve Sailer at Apr 12, 2008 6:57:53 PM
von Stackelberg refers to a model of monopolistic competition in which one firm (in this case, the USA) "leads" the market and the others respond to it's actions (they are "followers")
Posted by: Juan at Apr 12, 2008 7:27:58 PM
Steve, "von Stackelgerg leader" is helpfully explained by this Wikipedia entry: There are some further constraints upon the sustaining of a Stackelberg equilibrium. The leader must know ex ante that the follower observes his action. The follower must have no means of committing to a future non-Stackelberg follower action and the leader must know this...in a Stackelberg game one player moves before the other player, which can provide either a first-mover advantage or a first-mover disadvantage, depending on the specific assumptions that are made in the game.
I think the game they're talking about is golf. When I play golf, I usually force the other player into taking a "Stackelberg leader" role by consistently hitting behind him and losing holes. Note also that the other player knows I'm observing him, and the leader knows that there's no chance I can commit to a non-Stackelberg follower action (i.e., outdrive him).
Posted by: ziel at Apr 12, 2008 7:35:38 PM