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I can't imagine doing this
I find it really useful to write and draw while talking with someone, composing conversation summaries on pieces of paper or pages of notepads. I often use plenty of color annotation to highlight salient points. At the end of the conversation, I digitally photograph the piece of paper so that I capture the entire flow of the conversation and the thoughts that emerged. The person I've conversed with usually gets to keep the original piece of paper, and the digital photograph is uploaded to my computer for keyword tagging and archiving. This way I can call up all the images, sketches, ideas, references, and action items from a brief note that I took during a five-minute meeting at a coffee shop years ago--at a touch, on my laptop. With 10-megapixel cameras costing just over $100, you can easily capture a dozen full pages in a single shot, in just a second.
I prefer to simply remember what was said. Here is much more, on "How to Think," via Kottke.
Posted by Tyler Cowen on March 25, 2008 at 07:21 AM in Education | Permalink
Comments
I can't either. And I can't imagine tolerating someone who did it while talking to me.
A note or quick sketch is fine. Save the full-blown transcripts for legal proceedings.
Posted by: Bernard Yomtov at Mar 25, 2008 8:26:39 AM
Great method! If you concentrate on writing and drawing while talking with someone you will foster the conversation immensely. I guess you'll have a lot less conversations in no time if you show your conversation partners how much you value them by looking on your notepad (and not in their eyes)....by the way gesture seems to suffer from this bad habit as well
Posted by: Chris at Mar 25, 2008 8:29:12 AM
Not only would I never work for such a person - I would quit his class within a day. His methods are on the extreme side of 'how to think' and maybe applicable to .00001% of the population. Its sad that he doesn't recognize that.
Posted by: tim at Mar 25, 2008 9:26:32 AM
I prefer to simply remember what was said.
That's because you can. Alas, some of us are more synaptically challenged.
Posted by: Rich at Mar 25, 2008 9:37:43 AM
Wow, just wow. I think this is the exact wrong way to go about things in general. When I started interning for a judge, I took notes on everything that the said in public hearings. I figured it was the best way to remember stuff, but I often found that my focus on note-taking often caused me to miss crucial parts of what the judge said--and prevented me from actually thinking critically about what was going on. When I realized that the court reporter would create a transcript that is superior to my own notes, I stopped taking notes (except maybe a word here or there), and I realized that I understood what was going on a lot better. Moreover, since I was thinking about things as they happened, I actually remembered what was said better.
Posted by: kjhkjh at Mar 25, 2008 9:56:35 AM
Didn't Fischer Black use to do that? (Using 1960s-70s technology obviously.)
Posted by: Jack at Mar 25, 2008 10:32:26 AM
If I am engaged in a thought-provoking discussion and topic is brought up that I want to return to at a later point (especially if I am in a classroom/ seminar setting or on the telephone), I will jot down one or two words so I don't forget that point later. And I can completely understand writing up a brief summary of the discussion after the fact, especially if it pertained to business and the conversation would be important in later years... in the midst of the exchange though? I agree with kjhkjh, detailed note taking would be too distracting for me.
If anyone here has read 'The Autobiography of Malcolm X,' however, they would recognize this strategy as similar to one that he used -- Alex Haley wrote that oftentimes during the interviews, Malcolm would pick up a pen and paper and jot down associated thoughts (but he never gave the notes to Alex, he kept them for himself).
Posted by: Glenn at Mar 25, 2008 10:33:41 AM
I find that two-dimensional notes don't suffice. I carry clay, shoe boxes, and other supplies with me. Then, when I have an important conversation, I record the conversation in a series of shoe-box dioramas. I can then fire the figurines in the portable kiln for a record that will last the centuries. The only problem I have encountered with this method is that some people are unable to accept that the nose isn’t going to be exactly correct when you have a figure that small.
Posted by: MH at Mar 25, 2008 11:22:31 AM
I don't think people should see this as a from of transcript of the conversation, but more as an elaborate version of Glenn's 'topics I want to return to later'. If the conversation is of a brain-storming type, it is usually not clear at the beginning what points will be discussed, or even what the points are.
In such a discussion, you will often see that people mention interesting points that do not really fit in the discussion at that moment. If you don't write them down immediately, you're sure to forget them later on.
I don't imagine mr Boyden is jotting down stuff in his notepad shrink-style, with the other person talking and not seeing the paper. Imagine the paper in the middle, with sketched diagrams: 'So, you think it fits together like this?','No, I think this the top level and these are more separate, see?'.
Posted by: greatzamfir at Mar 25, 2008 11:33:42 AM
The conversation you "remember" would be significantly different from the one that actually occurred. Spoken English barely makes any sense in a transcript because of all the fragments and shortcuts, and then there's the whole reconstructive memory thing.
Posted by: Noumenon at Mar 25, 2008 11:42:25 AM
Tyler, it's an ADD thing: the colors, the structureless flow, the synesthesia of the shape of the formatting bringing back the unwritten memories of the experience, the whole thing in one image rather than having parts hidden on later pages. If you don't have any hint of an attention deficit, this method looks like the silliest thing ever.
I do something similar by drawing pictures to go with to-do list. I incorporate colors as cues wherever I can, without overusing them. I try to keep information on one page, using cues as shortcuts where I can.
Posted by: Rimfax at Mar 25, 2008 11:57:34 AM
I try to take notes on some conversations as well. I just wait till the conversation is over :D
Posted by: Robert Olson at Mar 25, 2008 12:02:06 PM
Seems like the live scribe would be a perfect gift [link: http://www.livescribe.com/ ].
This little gadget would cut out the digital photographing. Just plug in the usb cord at the end of the day and all of your pictures will be saved on your computer. And tagging? You can forget about that. This contraption lets you click on the picture in your notes to HEAR a recording of what was being said at the time you were writing.
Maybe--having lowered the costs a bit--Tyler might think this is a more viable option. Maybe not.
Posted by: WL at Mar 25, 2008 12:43:28 PM
It all depeds on the function of the conversation. People talking to clients or patients or subordinates in those roles often find it handy to send a note to the other party to the conversation summarizing the conversation. In negotiations, especially over the telephone, it is useful to take notes and memorandize the other party or parties as to your impression of what was settled and what remained to be settled. It is not unusual for such memos to be sent, and it is sometimes a tactic to send distortions of the preceding negotiations in order to gain a point.
Posted by: Dennis Tuchler at Mar 25, 2008 1:01:52 PM
I wonder if that's what John Kerry did when he took (copious) notes during debates.
Posted by: massrepublican at Mar 25, 2008 1:12:25 PM
Agree with kjhkjh. I think these methods that Kottke suggests will end up wasting a lot of time that could otherwise be spent thinking creatively about problems and issues. Though, I do happen to agree with his suggestion about reading actively, by taking notes and marking up the piece you are reading. This strategy helped me immensely in my law school reading, where I developed a system that enabled me to recall the cases and articles I read more efficiently, lest everything get jumbled up together and lost in the vast volume of reading that was assigned.
Posted by: Justin at Mar 25, 2008 2:26:47 PM
