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Is religion for controlling men?
Razib writes:
The researchers' hypothesis was that in religious kibbutzim men would be better collaborators (and thus would take less) than women, while in secular kibbutzim men and women would take about the same. And that was exactly what happened.
Here is more, interesting throughout.
Posted by Tyler Cowen on March 26, 2008 at 10:13 AM in Web/Tech | Permalink
Comments
Source article from the Economist.
Posted by: David Zetland at Mar 26, 2008 11:08:02 AM
Definitely not enough evidence to conclude that religion is about controlling men. Just the Kibbutz in Israel? What about the restrictions placed on women in Islamic nations?
I would rather suggest that religion promotes collaboration in general, and that the observed effect of increased longevity of a community (which is what the piece is really getting at) is mainly the result of the increase in collaboration by men, as, in the absence of religion, men are much less collaborative than women.
It's just a function of decreasing returns at that point. More and more collaboration will not increase longevity at the same rate, and at some point can actually be harmful (IE, groupthink)
Posted by: Robert Olson at Mar 26, 2008 1:05:28 PM
yes
Posted by: karl at Mar 26, 2008 2:20:09 PM
What is most interesting is how hard-wired we are for religion. Even when we intellectually reject and mock it whole-sale, like many do, it pops up unknowingly in our lives in other guises.
And that is exactly why neo-socialist environmentalism is surely a religion. I can't count the number of scientifically minded and highly intelligent people (American universities, anyone?) I have met who look down their noses and openly scoff at religious people, yet accept the gospel of the Goracle without question.
Just look at the commonalities between environmentalism and any other mainstream religion:
Sacrifice and Worship
We must cut back on our energy expenditures for the sake of the Earth!
Faith/Rejection of Skepticism/Heresy
Recycling is always good --- do not question it! In fact, do not question the basis of global warming theory, you evil damn heretic!
End of Days
I think you get the picture.
At least established religions are honest --- they make no bones that their beliefs are predicated on faith, while environmentalism dresses up its faith in pseudo-science.
Posted by: Varangy at Mar 26, 2008 2:20:43 PM
Yes, but as the article in the Economist notes, the men were expected to pray thrice daily in groups of at least ten. The women had no similar expectation for repeated collaborative group prayer.
Posted by: Amanda at Mar 26, 2008 2:27:11 PM
Subservience to God is religion. Subservience to another man's interpretation of God is slavery.
Any religion that puts lesser value on 50% of the population because of their gender does so solely to institute and maintain power.
Posted by: Vin at Mar 26, 2008 4:19:06 PM
But is it men controlling other men, or indirectly, women controlling men, or even, men failing to control women, or through control failing to actually control them?
Posted by: Lord at Mar 27, 2008 12:42:09 AM
Isn't this just a special single iteration of a multi-round prisoner's dilemma, where the faith in the long-term stability of the community encourages the men to be more cooperative? Faith in this instance would not be "controlling" the men as much as reassuring them that their inclinations toward cooperation are rational.
Posted by: MTC at Mar 27, 2008 1:46:49 AM
Do you mean that Scott Adams was right in The Dilbert Future?
Posted by: Rimfax at Mar 27, 2008 11:08:24 AM
OMG the study was about determining whether religion has adaptation elements that put it in an evolutionary frame! They used communes as a way to isolate things they needed to measure.
The "hypothesis of the study" makes it look like you are talking about the hypothesis for the study, not just a small part.
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