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How to choose a mechanic
Eamon McGinn, a loyal MR reader, asks:
I was wondering if you were willing to share your ideas for picking a mechanic. I had a look through the archives and couldn't find anything.
Considering a choice between a garage run by an individual mechanic and one run by a nationwide company:
The individual run garage stands to lose more if too many repairs are done (causing me not to return in the future) but he has a temptation to increase the amount of repairs as he gets most of the profits (as opposed to the mechanic working at a company run garage who, ipresume, gets a wage). I feel the latter effect will dominate as I can't really tell if too many repairs are done.
This would indicate that the company run garage is the one to go for. However the lack of incentive to over-charge also implies a lack of incentive to do a good job.
This is a tough dilemma, though I am not sure if individual vs. company is the trade-off I am worried about. I would expect individual mechanics in large repair companies to have plenty of incentives to overcharge you (does anyone know how these people are compensated?)
I am pleased that, at 46 years old, I've never had to use a mechanic in the traditional sense. I've never needed anything other than standard maintenance. So my first piece of advice is to always buy a Toyota or Honda. My second piece of advice is to support free trade and, if I dare say so, to support a reasonable level of immigration. I suspect that a mechanic who is an immigrant, indeed an illegal one, is less likely to rip you off. No proof, that's just my best educated guess, based on the idea that people who are afraid of losing a big surplus are less likely to invite scrutiny and the irritation of others.
As for the question itself, lack of experience, in this case, also implies lack of expertise. Readers, do you have good suggestions for Eamon?
Posted by Tyler Cowen on March 30, 2008 at 05:57 AM in Economics | Permalink
Comments
Couple of thoughts:
1. Car Talk runs a pretty helpful file of mechanics (http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/). Sort of a "wisdom of the crowds" tool. It is US-specific, though, so don't bother looking for an Alfa Romeo mechanic in Holland.
2. I would second the "Toyota or Honda" advice, with the caveat that not everyone will have the up-front money for the investment. I suspect owning one of these cars turns out to be more cost-effective over the long run.
Posted by: J.Lo at Mar 30, 2008 7:01:51 AM
A family member of mine was a mechanic for a brand-specific garage, that is, a garage that was part of a dealership. His compensation was based on the number of repairs that he made and in a rather particular way.
Imagine a repair, let's say replacing the transmission. For this repair, there was a standardized amount of time that would be billed, perhaps three hours. If it took more than three hours, the real amount would be billed to the customer. If it took less than three hours, three hours would be billed nonetheless and the mechanic could move onto to another repair.
Under this system, an efficient mechanic could bill many more hours of work than he was actually present for. I know that my family member would often bill 16 hours of work in an 8 hour day.
Here, the incentive is clearly for more repairs, but repairs done quickly while maintaining an acceptable level of quality given that customers would often ask for a specific mechanic within a large garage.
Posted by: Kurt at Mar 30, 2008 7:17:48 AM
As a college student who has owned a few beaters without a ton of money to fix them I learned early on "there are mechanics you go to when you want to find something, and mechanics you go to when you don't"
In my experience 'corporate' mechanics tend to only fix what you tell them is wrong, whereas smaller self-employed mechanics tend to build a relationship and take more effort ensure customer satisfaction (most of their business is likely based on word-of-mouth). They are the person I would go to for the 'What's that clicking noise?' problem. On the other hand, if I know I need a new muffler, for example, I'm more inclined to go to the 'corporate' place because they are usually able to replace it more efficiently and less expensively.
Posted by: Matt at Mar 30, 2008 7:32:42 AM
as a graduate student a couple of years back, i used to drive an old mazda that had 140K miles on it (most graduate student cars probably have a half-life of 4 weeks).
i used both individual and company run garage. individual owned garages have more ability to price discriminate and feel sorry for the graduate student so i go to him for routine minor repairs. for big ticket repairs, i used the company run garage because they are pretty good with honoring warranties on parts and labor. not that individual run garages are not. but if you are driving from north carolina to georgia and discovered the recently installed alternator is failing, if you see a sign for a company run garage bring it in and they'll fix it no questions asked and no charge. this happened to me a couple of times. now that i am employed full-time, i decided to buy a japanese car and like tyler, only need to remember to change oil every so often. and i did manage to negotiate
Posted by: fv at Mar 30, 2008 7:36:08 AM
For stuff that is "normal" when driving a old car (starter needs replaced, etc.) I go to the company store.
But in my experience when something major comes up (transmission busted, blown head gasket, etc.) where the cost of the repair is making you think about buying a newer vehicle as the alternative, a good self-employed mechanic is the way to go. You need access to reliable word-of-mouth to find such a shop, though.
Posted by: Cyrus at Mar 30, 2008 7:40:29 AM
For motorcycles, I would say go with the independent mechanic. These places are usually very small, but the owner wishes to build a loyal customer base. The dealers tend to work on bikes as an afterthought to selling them, probably because the manufacturers require that they service the brands they sell. My impression is that BMW dealers and larger Harley dealers are a major exception to my rule.
For cars, I suggest just the opposite. My unfortunately vast experience with auto repair (less so since I started buying Hondas) is that the smaller places, even ones with a national brand name on the front, will frequently make mistakes that require you to return. I believe the mistakes are generally honest, but those mistakes are still very inconvenient and expensive for the customer. My experience with large dealers is that they charge a little more for most jobs, but when the fix something they fix it right the first time, and when they don't, they don't just shrug their shoulders -- they try to make it up to you. I think I've learned this mostly the hard way.
My guess is that large auto dealerships pay an efficiency wage to retain good mechanics, and the smaller garages and chains pay the market-clearing wage. I used to laugh at people who went to the dealer for every oil change or minor bit of maintenance. But you get better coffee, satellite TV, internet access, etc. while you wait. I would wonder if it's a Honda dealer thing, but I've had the same good experience at Ford dealerships.
Posted by: Steve Miller at Mar 30, 2008 7:48:35 AM
One more thought: for very minor repairs, there's always that guy hanging out in the parking lot of Auto Zone. The economics of that choice are beyond my feeble musings at the moment, but I recall having a good bit of success back in the day when I needed a belt changed or an alternator installed on my $750 Toyota.
Posted by: J.Lo at Mar 30, 2008 8:00:08 AM
I think in smaller shops your relationship with the mechanic can be the most important factor.
At our local market, I assume most products are similar and all vendors have a range of quality and they would like to move everything. Getting to the point where we are recognized by one vendor has gotten us the largest produce, and seemingly produce that was more fresh and lasts longer.
The best bet might be to spend a bit more on routine maintenance, going regularly to the same mechanic and chatting and building a relationship, so that any larger ticket issues are resolved honestly and to the best of their ability.
Posted by: Russ Miller at Mar 30, 2008 8:49:16 AM
I've owned at least a dozen cars in my 17 years of owning cars - both beaters that needed constant repairs and new cars. I presently own a german made car (an Audi) that I bought new 8 years ago and have never had a major issue behind the normal wear and tear so my first piece of advice is to always buy an Audi*. The two major dealerships that sell and service the cars do so on a mass basis. Everything is built around the factory line mentality for repairs. My local german car repair shop doesn't. For me it all comes down to dealing with a real person and knowing the mechanic that is servicing your car. As for cost basis - the dealership is more interesting is maximizing the amount of repairs or service going through their shop. The local repair shop isn't. At least in my case.
*(this is a completely idiotic bit of advice - some people had nothing but trouble with the things. I haven't. I've owned two Toyota's and had nothing but trouble so I am never going to follow the authors advice).
Posted by: tim at Mar 30, 2008 9:20:41 AM
I had a great mechanic in GA and this is the advice he gave me when I asked him how to find another great mechanic when I moved to VA. Following the advice worked for me.
Brand name does not matter (Firestone / Goodyear, etc). Look for a small locally owned business with no more than 3 or 4 locations. If it's larger than that you can not count on consistent management across the locations. Look for a family owned business that has been around for a while, bonus points if it's been handed down through at least one generation. If you are a bad mechanic you simply will not survive many years as a small business. Bad word of mouth will kill you. Also look for stability in the actual technicians. If you see the same people every time you go there it is a very good sign.
Posted by: COD at Mar 30, 2008 9:50:11 AM
With mechanics, I worry much more about competency than dishonesty. My experience with dealers especially is that they tend to be 'parts replacers' -- they don't fix the thing (that would take real mechanical talent), they just unbolt the old one and bolt on a new one (priced, of course, at an absurd manufacturer list price).
I have a local guy with his own small garage, and he's great. Mostly he works on the old beater that the kids drive, but has had to do a little work on my newish Toyota (which has been good but not magically trouble-free). And Hondas and Toyotas have been prone to particular serious problems. Toyota has had the 'engine sludge' problem:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html
And Honda had all kinds of problems with transmission failures in the Odyssey (there was a class-action lawsuit that Honda lost). I have friends with one of those vans who had the transmission replaced 3 times in less than 100K miles. Honda did cover it each time, but after the last replacement the dealer mechanic told them not to expect that one to last either and advised them to sell the van.
Posted by: Slocum at Mar 30, 2008 9:51:56 AM
Saying that you should buy a Honda or Toyota because to avoid repair hassles is like saying you should eat well-done porridge every meal to avoid food poisoning.
Posted by: Phil at Mar 30, 2008 10:26:48 AM
I'll second the locally/family owned recommendation. Also, ask someone who's livelihood depends on their vehicle - delivery-man, taxi/shuttle driver, florist, etc. - good, relatively low cost maintenance will be essential for them and their own networks will point them towards mechanics you might not have access to. Look for signals that you've found a good one - hand written thank you notes on the wall, explanations of what is wrong with the car that include things they found but which they recommend you NOT have fixed now but that they will keep an eye on.
Posted by: Van at Mar 30, 2008 10:38:01 AM
Select a mechanic that does not operate near an interstate or other major transportation hub. Those near a freeway off-ramp are more likely to get travelers from out of state, who have no other alternative to get their car fixed. There's less chance that anyone will come back to hold them accountable if they did a shoddy job.
Posted by: JH at Mar 30, 2008 10:52:24 AM
For me:
1. In-warranty service: the dealer. After all, it is free.
2. Out-of-warranty service:
a. Simple items (oil change, tires, alignment): My local service station. They have been in the same location in our neighborhood for 60+ years. You can't survive 60 years be delivering bad service.
b. More complex items (entire a/c system): My local, single location, independent shop with whom I have a 25-year relationship. Some of the mechanics have been there they entire time. All the mechanics attend training classes and have the certificates for them. I trust the owner not to sell me something I don't need.
Of course, there is always the buy a Honda approach. 60K miles and not one single repair. Too bad, we got T-boned by a truck and the car was totaled.
Posted by: Dave Barnes at Mar 30, 2008 11:13:37 AM
A 46 year old economist who does not know how car mecahanics are compensated? Lack of experience indeed.
Most mechanics work on a flat rate based on a manual covering repairs for all the major makes and models. "Chilton's Flate Rate Manual" is the usual standard, and is often referenced in the fine print of the workorder you sign at the garage. I think they've been published since 1925. Here's a battered copy from 1939: http://www.goantiques.com/detail,chilton-flat-rate,1071750.html
The social class I grew up in viewed being a car mechanic as a good thing. Working off Chilton's book, you could easily make double your official hourly rate if you hustled. Of course, if you messed up, you had to fix it for free.
Should we apply this compensation model to medical care?
Posted by: Bob Knaus at Mar 30, 2008 11:15:26 AM
"So my first piece of advice is to always buy a Toyota or Honda."
I would have to say that if you want to specialize into some narrow field like professoring, then don't buy anything other than Toyota or Honda if you expect a Toyota or Honda result. ;)
However, even the quality thing is complicated. Some models are not of comparable quality to the ones that gave them the reputation. Also, competition is causing others to catch up in the quality arena. Toyota seems to be reverting to the mean lately. So, "Toyonda" is just a substitution for delving into the details of quality. Some Toyondas are made in the USA, so if all Toyondas are of superior quality, then Bubba is capable of high quality cars.
An analogy is that Volvo "owns" the safety segment. Are they the safest? Only on average. You can get safer models, and since you only need one car, it might be worth it. But if you just want something guaranteed to be pretty safe, you can be confident in a Volvo.
I think the question is, will the generally accepted assumption that Toyonda is highest quality create an insurmountable psychological hurdle to competitors who hope to compete on quality? Or will the assumption leak into the typical Toyonda worker's psyche, making him forget that quality doesn't just happen. It's hard work, but it's not rocket science. Competition can do it.
So, yeah, if you don't want to think about it, buy a Toyota or Honda. However, I own only Toyondas and because I buy used cars I still need good mechanics.
Beyond platitudes, all I have are anecdotes. I've found that the biggest variable is you get a lot more variability with independents. Some are much worse, but some are much better than the chains.
We knew we found a good mechanic when we couldn't get him to do any unneeded repairs. We took in our old car and told him to give it a look over and come up with a list of things to fix. Boy, what a carte blanche for the typical mechanic, right? Well, I have plenty of money, no time for the aggravation of being stranded, but can't bring myself to buy a new car and suffer the depreciation and loss of pride of being an economic patsy. Anyway, the mechanic came up with a couple piddly things, most of which he told me things like "I wouldn't worry about fixing that, just check the oil every couple thousand miles." My wife's theory was that because our car looks old the guy assumed we were on a really tight budget.
How we found this guy: My wife was on the way home and her car (the old looking one) started making an awful noise. She pulled into the nearest driveway which happened to be this shop. It was right after closing, but for free, they looked at the car and found a small pebble lodged between the brake pad and drum. They probably could have charged my wife to replace the engine because she was stranded, frazzled, and unaware.
Next, look at the yard. You want to see a few cars, but not an enormous lot full. This speaks to churn rate and turnaround time.
Recommendations from acquaintances is probably your best tool.
Finally, talking to the guy, if you are emotionally intuitive, will give you an idea if the guy is rational and honest or a sheister.
Lastly, if possible, give him a minor but not obvious repair that you've already researched and know the solution to. If they do anything funny, take your lumps on that one, then move on.
I have a lot of other stories, none helpful, but mostly interesting. If you want to miss out on these object lessons in human behavior and basic mechanics, then buy a 2008 Accord! If you want even less headache, take it to the dealership.
Posted by: Andrew at Mar 30, 2008 11:26:19 AM
You might want to talk to Henry Schneider at Cornell http://www.johnson.cornell.edu/faculty/profiles/hschneider/
or read his paper http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1022204
He drove around a bunch of mechanics, introducing mechanical problems and seeing what got picked up, and trying to manipulate their expectations of repeat business. As far as I can make out, they were all fairly lousy ...
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Posted by: individual dream at Mar 30, 2008 12:08:38 PM
Suppose the individual mechanic who is an own account workerdoes not own a garage and will be available at your doorstep following a phone call.If heis efficient, he increases your search cost by being busy.On the otherhand a company's garage minimises your search cost but maximises your transaction cost since you have to 'Q' patiently meantime spending on snacks,tea,cigarettes etc.Moreover, you have to take your vehicle which is in an off condition to the company's garage which itself is costly and you have to spend for that and for the companions.Therefore which way you repair your vehicle depends on a comparison between these search and transaction costs.
Posted by: GVV at Mar 30, 2008 12:34:33 PM
All will tend to charge the price the market will bear.
Three groups for repairs: Dealers, national or regional shops, independent shops.
Dealers generally have the best access to parts and testing equipment. They have a big advantage in electronic system repairs as they often take a part out of inventory, see if it works or return it to inventory (they aren't supposed to do this, but they often do) The incentives for the dealer is to avoid tinkering with problems, just replace the parts until you replace the right part. Dealer also makes a profit on part sales. But dealers vary on the quality of their service people - some dealers higher fresh faces all the time others like stability. Some dealers will play games with repair bills, just as they do with sales pitches.
Some of the national chains are awful. Some of the brake shops are so dishonest with padded bills that it is really fraud. The fine print on some of the muffler shops makes the promises almost worthless. The profit margins at some of these national specialty shops are so narrow that they try all kinds of games to boost the bill. Look at tire shops that try to compete on the price of the tire but then boost the final price with expensive extras. I have used Pep Boys with some luck for simple repairs, but I would say that is more a function of the local manager then the national chain. An oil change shop even charged my 80 year old mother for extras that I considered shameful. Most managers must meet profit targets, if they are having difficulty they will try to squeeze vulnerable customers.
Independent shops have a hard time. They have more difficulty with new technologies, compared to dealers, and they don't have the volume advantages of muffler, brake, oil shops. In general, if they started their own shops, they are decent mechanics.
I had a mechanic who I liked, but he retired. I liked him because when I brought my car in for simple service he would also check other parts of the car. He would check, hoses, belts, brakes, and I trusted that he would only recommend a repair if it was truly needed. And he had a network of referrals for complex repairs. i.e. he didn't do transmission repairs but he had a transmission shop he would send me to. He also had a relationship with body shops that he trusted. Basically he was a GP doctor for my car with an extensive referral network of specialists. The downside was that he liked to tinker with some repairs, finding low cost alternatives to repairs, which when I was tight for money I liked, but as money became less of an issue I was more willing to pay extra to fix the part quickly (just replace the thing.) I probable paid a little extra to the independent mechanic but the transaction felt cleaner, less like a trip to a whore house, and I felt better when I left. If I had an older car I loved or a special car, I would certainly consider a mechanic who is a true expert in that type of car. But that isn't the case most of the time.
Posted by: DanC at Mar 30, 2008 1:18:09 PM
Small businesses run on reputation and word of mouth. The individual guy might be a shyster; but he might be a guy who realizes that if he repairs what is needed at a good price not only will you return but you will tell all your friends about him when they need repairs. Seriously, who doesn't want a trustworthy and inexpensive mechanic?
Posted by: Toxic at Mar 30, 2008 2:02:08 PM
...
"My second piece of advice is to support free trade and, if I dare say so, to support a reasonable level of immigration. I suspect that a mechanic who is an immigrant, indeed an illegal one, is less likely to rip you off. No proof, that's just my best educated guess, based on the idea that people who are afraid of losing a big surplus are less likely to invite scrutiny and the irritation of others."
My gawd. I think I have heard it all now.
Yeah, lets support illegal immigration and a secret underclass that cowers every day in fear of being found out and tossed uncerimoniously out of the country. Like that is likely to happen.
I would suggest that "a reasonable level of immigration" would be no illegal immigration. Just as a reasonable level of drunk driving would be no drunk driving.
An irresponsible, self-serving thought and recommendation.
As always, YMMV.
...tom...
.
Posted by: ...tom... at Mar 30, 2008 2:23:23 PM
Mechanics are the reasons I work on my own cars. In my experience, most mechanics don't know very much. I don't think its because they are dishonest, I think its simply a matter of experience and pay; customers just aren't willing to pay for good mechanics, most of the time. I could give you guys far more examples of incompetence than dishonesty (the old "drain the transmission and put 6 quarts of oil in the motor" mistake comes to mind).
They are typically better (and more honest) at turning wrenches than they are at diagnosing problems, so try and find someone good at diagnosing. Mis-diagnosis is really the biggest problem, because they'll end up replacing all sorts of extra parts at your expense, and you might not ever know. A botched install is typically easier to detect, and is something they'd have more trouble denying.
Your best bet is to make friends with some racers (and I don't mean the kids with big wings on their Hondas) or other people very knowledgeable about cars, and find out where they go (or if they do their own wrenching, get them to diagnose problems for you). Their mechanics typically operate on a word-of-mouth basis, often doing extra work (sometimes for less money) outside normal business hours. Since they serve experts, they are far more likely to be honest.
However, if you take Tyler's advice and buy a Toyota or especially a Lexus (I'm not as sure about Hondas) you get access to a great dealer network. Yes some individuals can be pricks, but you can appeal to someone higher up (say, the regional manager) if you get ripped off.
Posted by: Grant at Mar 30, 2008 2:27:51 PM
I'm way ahead of Tyler. I've always gone to immigrant mechanics since '90, and never felt badly treated, a decided contrast with the complaints of my more conventional relatives and friends.
One of my choices later was Discovered and won a Best-Of-Austin award.
ISTR Ithaca didn't have immigrant mechanics, so probably Schneider wouldn't've been able to try it out. Ithaca also lacks enough choice to have a healthy auto repair industry.
Posted by: Jon Kay at Mar 30, 2008 2:41:03 PM
One data point:
When I was living around Cincinnati, our Honda Accord was rattling from the front end. My wife took it to the dealership. They said it needed a new radiator, at about $400. We got a second opinion from the local garage right next to our apartment. The guy said that the fan was loose; he tightened it and charged us about $30. Problem solved.
Posted by: Stuart Buck at Mar 30, 2008 3:46:42 PM
yelp.com does wonders here.
Posted by: a young curmudgeon at Mar 30, 2008 4:01:00 PM
"I would suggest that 'a reasonable level of immigration' would be no illegal immigration. Just as a reasonable level of drunk driving would be no drunk driving."
Tyler,
In the interest of taking small steps towards a much better world, could you and Alex have a post or two at some point on the optimal rate of drunk driving and other negative behaviors? It seems that, from time to time, there are MR commenters that either have not been exposed to or did not fully understand the idea of marginal analysis, and we could all use a refresher.
While I do not agree with the position that illegal immigration is particularly harmful, I'd even go so far as to suggest taking the stance that it is, just to demonstrate that, even in that case, the optimal rate of illegal immigration is very unlikely to be zero.
Thanks!
Posted by: Jared at Mar 30, 2008 7:54:50 PM
Someone I know who worked at NTB said their mechanics are paid a 40-60% commission on repair work. This seems to be all the wrong motivation to me, but I also don't go there for repairs.
Posted by: Carl H at Mar 30, 2008 8:53:11 PM
If you are given an outrageous estimate, get a second opinion. I took my camry to the local toyota dealer(sandy springs toyota) and was told I needed $1500 worth of work. My dad had the car towed to his mechanic in Knoxville, TN. It needed a $70 starter. It lasted another five years before being totaled. It still ran great when the insurance company towed it away.
Posted by: adam at Mar 30, 2008 8:56:27 PM
The historian Paul Johnson says:
"garages tend to cheat customers today over repairs [because] they had their
origin in horse mongering, thus preserving an unbroken tradition of fraud"
http://books.google.com/books?client=safari&rls=en&q=%22unbroken+tradition+of+fraud%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wp
Posted by: Sam Penrose at Mar 30, 2008 10:06:06 PM
I totally agree with buying Honda or Toyota as they are the easiest ones to repair and their parts are not too expensive or hard to replace. But finding a good mechanic is like finding a needle in a haystack, word of mouth is usually the best way and even if you found one, you have to kinda feel out his skill level first because sometimes you get what you pay for buddy.
Posted by: Marsello at Mar 30, 2008 10:14:31 PM
I would recommend that Tyler Cowen approach finding an auto mechanic the way he would approach finding a good restaurant.
First, stay off the interstate and away from the shopping malls.
Second, avoid national chains.
Third, rely on word of mouth to find the individual or family owned business that customers eagerly return to time after time.*
I don't think the markets are fundamentally different--except in terms of the relative gastronomic experience.
*(That is, for those of us who drive vehicles that need to be returned to the mechanic time after time--I've done the math, a $200 repair three times a year is about equal to 1 month's payment on a new car--so take a 48 month car loan, and figure you can drive the beater for 48 years before it costs as much as the new car--and that's ignoring the interest I can earn).
Posted by: James Hanley at Mar 30, 2008 10:31:29 PM
I try to find a mechanic walking distance to my work. It makes everything way more convenient.
Posted by: bruce rogers at Mar 30, 2008 11:00:18 PM
2004 and later model Hyundais are as reliable as Hondas or Toyotas.
Posted by: Jacqueline at Mar 31, 2008 12:22:06 AM
I own a mid-nineties German car, bought when it was 2-3yrs old, and although not perfect, it has given 100k+ miles of good service. After paying the exorbitant prices at the dealership for the simplest of maintenance items, I went looking for an independent, and picked up a business card in a German coffee shop. I went to his location a couple of times, to scope out the place and saw it was clean and orderly- he always had a car on the hoist, and one or two in the yard, waiting. What sold me, though, was when on the second or third 'scoping out' visit I saw _two_ notoriously difficult to work on, complex, vintage cars. I reckoned if he could handle _them_, and if their owners trusted him with their prizes, doing an oil change on my newish common car would be a snap. I made an appointment on the spot. FWIW, he is a (not German) immigrant.
One place I would never take my car, is the chain 'Kwik-E-Loob' kind of place. I have had several bad experiences with them bollixing up a simple oil change on my simple as a brick and common as dirt pick-up.
Posted by: Imethisguy at Mar 31, 2008 1:41:39 AM
"With mechanics, I worry much more about competency than dishonesty."
This is probably good advice. But, if an expert is more competent, are they not more likely to be able to snooker you? What Levitt called information asymmetry. This is one reason I think women get taken advantage of at shops. The mechanic knows "the spread" between his car knowledge and the female customer's is (on AVERAGE) going to be greater. She's also (on AVERAGE) less likely to be assertive or confrontational.
I think you also need to worry about the mechanic's perception of YOUR competency. Get a Haynes manual.
Posted by: Andrew at Mar 31, 2008 3:13:17 AM
Phil got it exactly right in the 12th comment of the thread when he wrote, "Saying that you should buy a Honda or Toyota because to avoid repair hassles is like saying you should eat well-done porridge every meal to avoid food poisoning."
BTW, there is some evidence that Toyota isn't what it used to be: http://blog.wired.com/cars/2007/10/toyota-drops-to.html
Posted by: Carpundit at Mar 31, 2008 8:27:58 AM
Wow, I am shocked, shocked to see Tyler loving all things non-American from Camrys to immigrant mechanics -- other work American will not do.
His endorsement of a reasonable level of protectionism is gratifying.
Since Toyota, Honda, and their brethren grew to (and maintain) their level of international competitiveness in a protected market, let’s give our manufacturers some similar breathing space.
We should however avoid a Japanese system of industrial policy: from what I read here, I expect a Yugo-like quality of reality-based thinking from the econ grads who will sit (slumber?) on the planning staff.
Posted by: shocked_at_934 at Mar 31, 2008 9:52:36 AM
Wow, I am shocked, shocked to see Tyler loving all things non-American from Camrys to immigrant mechanics -- other work American will not do.
His endorsement of a reasonable level of protectionism is gratifying.
Since Toyota, Honda, and their brethren grew to (and maintain) their level of international competitiveness in a protected market, let’s give our manufacturers some similar breathing space.
We should however avoid a Japanese system of industrial policy: from what I read here, I expect a Yugo-like quality of reality-based thinking from the econ grads who will sit (slumber?) on the planning staff.
Posted by: shocked_at_934 at Mar 31, 2008 9:52:52 AM
@Carpundit
Don't go trying to confuse us with your facts. Your inner economist should tell you to bend the data to your preconceived notions.
@Shocked
There you are taking something to its logical conclusion. Industrial policy is bad and any results that go against libertarian orthodoxy should be ignored.
Posted by: crack at Mar 31, 2008 10:39:11 AM
Outsource this by buying an extended warranty:
There are industry standard fees for automotive repairs — another area where lack of information can result in bills that are many times larger than they need to be. Here owning an extended warranty can save you the trouble of finding and applying the standard fees. Otherwise you need to appeal to someone with access to the industry’s “Labor Time Standards” manuals, which set out the amount of time that a mechanic should reasonably bill for every conceivable service.The value of this billing expertise is, incidentally, why I buy extended warranties for all of the cars that I keep past the manufacturer’s base warranty. Of course, extended warranties are often an enormous profit center, so I bargain aggressively to get them near wholesale cost.
Extended warranties will also prevent you from paying for unnecessary repairs. E.g., when you replace a compressor do you replace the clutch too? How about the dryer tank? ...
Posted by: ConsumerMaven at Mar 31, 2008 10:43:12 AM
For a beater, neighborhood places are best. Someplace you can walk to, and if you are a grad student or equivalent, you probably live in an area that has them.
For newer cars, I prefer dealers for a couple of reasons. First, they tend to charge a fee for routine maintenance and will do it and get on with it. Compared to places who do a la carte and always seem to find a lot of minor things to get to the same place. Also, I think the make and model specific problems tend to be significant. That is, make/models tend to have design issues and the dealers can almost tell you what is wrong without even looking at it. These are border line product defects, but at least you aren't depending on competent diagnosis, and they have the parts. The dealer also has a computer record of all past maintenance. I have also gotten my dealer to knock off 10% and also they will do a competitive price on tires and batteries.
National chains seem to be the worst of all worlds. The exception being if you use them only for their specialty, they are efficient. That is, what it says on the sign - mufflers, tires, windshields and nothing more. Don't use muffler place for brakes, tire places for tuneups, etc.
Posted by: Ziggurat at Mar 31, 2008 10:54:52 AM
Check Consumer's Checkbook.org. It's like Consumer's Reports but for services.
Posted by: Chris Janak at Mar 31, 2008 6:15:48 PM
Most AAA clubs have an Approved Auto Repair program -- the garages are inspected each year and AAA handles any disputes between the mechanic and the AAA member.
Posted by: marie m at Mar 31, 2008 7:25:17 PM
Dealers are expensive but do it right the first time. They are good for a newer car. Chains are often under greater pressure for profits, quotas on amount and number of sales being common, and are usually the most fraud prone. Independents have the best incentives to keep you as a return customer. You just need to find a competent one.
Posted by: Lord at Mar 31, 2008 9:36:17 PM
In LA I would always go to immigrant mechanics, I think they do a good job and are quite honest, although the price was typically the same, probably because they tend to have lots of excess people working there. A nice side effect though is that you can usually get serviced right away, they just put the beaters aside for a couple hours and tag-team it on your car.
Posted by: Paul N at Mar 31, 2008 10:18:42 PM
I always took my truck to Kenneth Todd's 66 station, until Kenneth retired a couple years ago. He had been in business for years, had excellent word of mouth, and charged reasonable rates. He also usually had half a dozen cop cars being worked on at a time, which is a sign of a good reputation.
Kenneth mentioned once that he'd had a job application from a mechanic who had previously worked in Wal-Mart's auto service department. The applicant bragged that they taught mechanics there how to "find" as much bad stuff as possible so they could jack up the bill. Kenneth told him he should look for a job elsewhere.
Posted by: Kevin Carson at Apr 1, 2008 4:43:50 AM
I prefer the small, local mechanic. My thinking is that if you are a skilled mechanic you will only want to work in a stealership, I mean dealership for so long. Once you develop your skills and realize how much money they are making off your work, you then decide to open up your own business.
The local mechanic has a lot more to loose by treating a customer unfairly and lot more to gain by providing great service.
Posted by: RunColo at Apr 3, 2008 12:07:10 AM
