« Michael Shermer's Mind of the Market | Main | Book forum »

Liberal Fascism

Here is Henry Farrell on the book.  Here is Matt Yglesias.  Here is Fred Siegel.  Here is Arnold Kling.  Here is another review.  Here is Megan McArdle on the BloggingHeads version.  Here is the Amazon link.  I am closest to the CrookedTimber commentator who wrote:

Jonah’s book, at its heart, is geared toward popularizing the arguments of smart intellectuals/academics, from John Patrick Diggins to A.J. Gregor to Hayek to Erik Von Kuehnelt-Leddihn.

Or try this excellent book, or for that matter John T. Flynn's As We Go Marching.  I divide the arguments of Liberal Fascism into three categories:

1. The oft neglected but obviously true: For instance Mussolini really was a precursor of the New Deal and he was initially regarded with fondness by many on the American left.  This sort of claim is the core of the book and it does stand up after you take all the criticisms into account.  I am pleased to see it upend traditional "feel good" narratives of politics.

That said, a "who cares?" response might be in order from a social democrat.  Good people can have bad ideas, so can't bad people -- namely the fascists -- have had some good ideas?  After all, George Lucas borrowed from Leni Riefenstahl.

2. The false claims: Contrary to what Goldberg argues, it simply isn't true that Hitler and Nazism were essentially left-wing phenomena.  Not all right-wing ideas are Burkean, and the mere fact that the Nazis were "revolutionary" does not make them left-wing.  Furthermore the Nazis busted labor unions and used right-wing emotive tricks for their racism and authoritarianism.  When all those old Nazis popped up in South America, where did they all find themselves on the political spectrum?  Overall fascism has much stronger roots in the Right than Goldberg is willing to emphasize.

I also would have put more weight on the aestheticization of politics than did Goldberg.  That would help us see why supporters of the War on Drugs, while they favor very violent and possibly unjust means, should not be regarded as fascists.

3. The true but possibly misleading claims.  Goldberg writes for instance that Hillary Clinton is not a fascist.  OK, but simply to write that she isn't a fascist is reframing the terms of the debate, and not in a way I am fully comfortable with.  I'm sure it bothers many Clinton supporters more than it bothers me.

Goldberg insists he only wants to stop the slander of the Right and its long-standing identification with fascism.  I am fully behind this goal of tolerance, and I might add I recall fellow Harvard econ grad students calling Martin Feldstein (and perhaps me!) a fascist on a regular basis.  That simply shouldn't happen.  The problem is that Goldberg's book will be interpreted by its buyers and readers as a call to do the same to the left.  Take a look at the cover and the title, both of which Goldberg distanced himself from on Comedy Central (I can no longer find the YouTube link).  But they're on the book nonetheless.

Is Goldberg "to blame" for how his book will be interpreted, especially if he requests an interpretation to the contrary?  That's a moot point.  But it gets to the core of why I don't like the book more than I do. 

The bottom line: As Arnold Kling recommends, all parties involved should read Dan Klein's "The People's Romance," and start the debate there.

Addendum: Some of the critical web reviews admit they have not read the book, but they rely heavily on Goldberg's (apparently controversial) web writings.  I've never read Goldberg before, so I am coming at this book "fresh."

Posted by Tyler Cowen on January 25, 2008 at 06:58 AM in Books, Political Science | Permalink

Comments

Take a look at the cover and the title

Not sure what his publishing agreement says, but the publishing contracts I'm familiar with are very specific that it is the publisher, not the author, who determines title, interior design, and exterior (i.e., front and back cover and spine) design.

Posted by: chug at Jan 25, 2008 7:40:39 AM

"But it gets to the core of why I don't like the book more than I do."

Don't worry.
Even God can't like a book more than He does .

Posted by: Theologist at Jan 25, 2008 7:57:17 AM

All Daily Show clips (every DS episode from the last 10 years, I believe) are available at thedailyshow.com.

Here's the link to Jonah Goldberg's appearance: http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=147884&title=jonah-goldberg

Posted by: mrshl at Jan 25, 2008 8:23:29 AM

Overall fascism has much stronger roots in the Right

Yes, the European right which is a much different beast than the Burkean American right, though they share some similarities, such as the ones you point out. But, those similarities are shared because the American right is gradually shifting away from those principles toward the left. At the time of America's founding the American right was at the right. Today the American right has drifted to the left a bit, but both the Europen right and left continue to be considerably farther to the left. That is, or at least should have been, the take away from the book.

Posted by: KDeRosa at Jan 25, 2008 8:33:56 AM

Zeev Sternhell has written a lot about the ideological roots of fascism in Europe, and especially in France.

His conclusions may not apply litterally to the American side of the phenomenon, but his point of view is still worth a read:

http://www.amazon.com/Neither-Right-Nor-Left-Ideology/dp/0691006296/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201267998&sr=1-3

I highly recommend his work on the matter.

Posted by: Rubin at Jan 25, 2008 8:37:52 AM

I haven't read the Goldberg, but obviously it is a shame that he accords the leftists "liberalism."

There are two planes, the lower plane that works within "liberal v. conservative," and the higher plane that knows liberalism v. statism.

Posted by: Daniel Klein at Jan 25, 2008 8:46:09 AM

"Left" and "Right" are not particularly helpful. That's why the GOP is in a tizzy--some of us are limited-government types, and some are definitely not. Dr. Jerry Pournelle proposed a two-axis description which I've found helpful: http://www.baen.com/chapters/axes.htm

Posted by: CDeBoe at Jan 25, 2008 8:46:17 AM

Speaking as someone who hasn't read the book, but is considering doing so: Does it really add anything to the arguments of As We Go Marching apart from a more modern context?

As much as I liked Flynn (indeed, it is one of the best political books I've read), I don't really see a reason to have a modern updating of it on my shelf, and that's what most reviews have seemed to say that Goldberg's book is.

Posted by: Grant Gould at Jan 25, 2008 9:18:05 AM

In her critcism of the Alaska pipeline shutdown for maintenance, Hilary so much as said she would make the oil flow on time.

Posted by: jorod at Jan 25, 2008 10:14:39 AM

Tyler said: "2. The false claims: Contrary to what Goldberg argues, it simply isn't true that Hitler and Nazism were essentially left-wing phenomena."

Tyler - I believe that the Nazis were originally a Socialist party. In "A Road to Serfdom" Hayek basically asserts this.

Goldberg points this out here: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTA4YjZlMjhiZmE3NjI2YzM3M2QxNDk5NTZjMzliM2I=

Posted by: david at Jan 25, 2008 10:58:24 AM

chug,

You are correct that almost all publishing agreements give the final say to the publisher on the title, cover, design. But, Mr. Goldberg would have had explicit consultation rights on those decisions in the contract. Moreover, no major publisher, and certainly not a Random House imprint (which Doubleday is), would foist a cover on an author that he decided he couldn't support or found objectionable. I work with Random House publishers every day, and Mr. Goldberg could have changed the title and cover if he wanted to. It's there almost surely because he agreed with them that it was the most "commercial" option and would draw attention (and even outrage) to the book.

His claim that it was his publishers doing is, quite frankly, a lie. And politics aside, that says a lot about him to my mind.

Posted by: pblsh at Jan 25, 2008 11:14:26 AM

Libertarians like the two-axis approach, but Christians can play that game too. It is now pretty well-accepted that the 20th was characterized by a search for a guiding ideology in a world in which, as Nietzche declared, God was dead. There were two major candidates. The first was communism and the second was social darwinism, which led to ethnic nationalism. In both cases it was shocking how quickly and brutally these movements could strip away the veneer of civilization. Of course, the French Revolution foreshadowed all this.

I think that even secularly-minded libertarians would be able to honor the Judeo-Christian ethical tradition, which teaches to love your enemies and to pray for them.

Posted by: Justin at Jan 25, 2008 11:24:32 AM

re: breaking unions.

No one did this more effectively than the communists, right? No god before theirs, especially for people that insisted on no distance between the individual and the state. Which has always been my definition of the term.

It's an interesting thesis. Perhaps in another 40-50 we'll be able to diagnose how people reason about themselves, their relationships and their government, and each components appropriate role in balancing human frailty.

Posted by: Ari Tai at Jan 25, 2008 11:41:01 AM

Which non-Burkean ideas of the right did the Nazis use? The hatred of free markey capitalism espoused by the Nazis and the economic parts of their platform seem pretty left wing to me.
Perhaps there is confusion as to what the label right wing means.

Posted by: sourcreamus at Jan 25, 2008 12:05:00 PM

I would agree with Daniel Klein that one needs to be careful about the
slipshod usage of the terms "left" and "right," which are not necessarily
always that meaningful, especially when one is making comparisons across
historical periods and geographical locations. The origin of the terms
comes from the seating arrangements in the French parliament immediately
after 1789, when the "Left" was anti-monarchist, including what would now
be called "classical liberals" as well as "further left" types who would
manifest themselves at their worst with Robespierre, while the "Right"
were the pro-monarchist faction, definitely very statist and pro-strong
central (and authoritarian) central control of the state and economy.

The original self-defined fascists in Italy always claimed that they
represented a "Third Way," with their dictatorial corporatism. It is
historically true that Mussolini came out of the socialist "Left" of
the Italian political spectrum right after WW I, even as many of his
appeals and policies (ultra-nationalism and racism) appealed to the
"Right." This appeal to a unifying nationalism via a "third way" has
long been part of the propaganda of classically fascist politica parties.

While "national socialism" was part of the official name of the
German Nazi party, they never did engage in any nationalizing of the
means of production, the bottom line sine qua non of classical socialism,
(and Hitler immediately purged the faction of the party that wanted to
do that, right after he first came to power). Its "socialism" amounted
to engaging in command control of the economy, which was the aspect that
Hayek focused on in his _Road to Serfdom_.

Posted by: Barkley Rosser at Jan 25, 2008 12:10:38 PM

Tyler, having read the book carefully I would argue that you're wrong in your review. Specifically your points two and three are just not accurate. The book is more subtle than portrayed in the early reviews. The references check out and his reasoning is internally sound based on both traditional political science and political economy in the 20th century. Whether you like the model or not, the placing of fascism on the far left of the line is accurate in context of political movements and developments. The far right belongs to neo-monarchism and religious authority-related movements.

Hayek and von Böhm-Bawerk both describe the spectrum and distinguish the movements from the tactics which they employ (which are strikingly similar).

Posted by: The other Eric at Jan 25, 2008 12:32:43 PM

I've read Jonah's book. I agree with Kling and Cowen, for the most part, although it's arguable Jonah is claiming that Mussolini's fascism was "left-wing" IN THE CONTEXT OF AMERICAN POLITICS. Also, in response to one of the above comments, Jonah does not confuse "liberals" with "left-wingers," although he does attempt to indict both simultaneously, which becomes a problem at times. His most interesting liberal/fascist discussion concerns third-way, corporatist, economics -- old news for most libertarians, but Jonah's history of its evolution is still recommended.

Warts and all, it's a book worth delving into. I've been disappointed with the reaction, especially from those who should know better (Megan McArdle immediately comes to mind). It looks like the thing is quickly becoming kryptonite for those journos/intellectuals who like to stay within "respectable" company, and that's unfortunate, because there really is a lot of good stuff in there. I also think Jonah is doing an adequate job answering most of his critics at his blog, if you can stomach the sycophantic emails, whining in between: http://liberalfascism.nationalreview.com/

What I'd like to see:
1. More thoughtful, engaging reviews from thoughtful, engaging reviewers.

2. Tyler Cowen, Arnold Kling, lesser known but reputable academics taking on the task of writing more academic/intellectual versions of Jonah's book. I know one could argue these books have already been written, but I'm of the camp there's still a lot to be said, discovered, and, of course, repeated.

Whatever the merits/demerits of "Liberal Fascism," this is an important event (I believe it's about to be something like #3 on the NYTimes Bestseller List) for those who care about freedom -- a word so beaten, battered, misunderstood. Libertarians, libertarian conservatives, libertarian liberals, libertarians whatever, should sieze the opportunity.

Posted by: Zinaida at Jan 25, 2008 12:53:36 PM

Posts like this are extremely disappointing. You would think that a smart libertarian would realize that movement conservatism in the United States is not a positive force for liberty under any reasonable defintion. Yeah, they might lower taxes on the rich and get rid of useful social services, but the political mechanisms they use to accomplish those aims hopelessly distort the shape of political debate, and incite backwards moral passions in people to impress their moral views on others, rail against immigrants and internationalism and kill whatever enemy presents itself (arabs and muslims for now).

This book is just another effort in the process of advancing and strengthening that movement.


3. The true but possibly misleading claims. Goldberg writes for instance that Hillary Clinton is not a fascist. OK, but simply to write that she isn't a fascist is reframing the terms of the debate, and not in a way I am fully comfortable with. I'm sure it bothers many Clinton supporters more than it bothers me.

You think so?!! You think this might just be another tool for framing the debate in a dishonest fashion?!! But conservatives never do that!

Posted by: mpowell at Jan 25, 2008 12:54:12 PM

Yglesias writes,

Goldberg is, instead, a loyal foot soldier in the Republican Noise Machine. He's a steadfast supporter of the political party representing the dominant ethnocultural group in the United States, the party that supports torture and unlimited surveillance, the party that supports a larger and more aggressively employed military, the party that supports a more punitive criminal justice system at home, the party whose backers are prone to fretting about low birthrates, the need to police gender roles more rigidly, etc.
I'm not going to say that means contemporary conservatives are fascists. I agree with Goldberg that that's a superficial line of argument that completely ignores the sociocultural roots of American conservatism and European fascism. But nobody with allegiances like that can seriously turn around, point at the other ideological camp, at start yelling "fascism" at the slightest whiff of collectivism.

I'd say that's accurate. As Yglesias further suggests, Goldberg, based on his other writing, is a buffoon. I haven't read the book, so I guess I shouldn't say much about it. I will say that based on my knowledge of Goldberg I think it would be a waste of time, and see no reason whatsoever for Goldberg to think he is entitled to be taken seriously.

Posted by: Bernard Yomtov at Jan 25, 2008 1:09:45 PM

I think Kling and Cowen are more or less accurate. However, if you take the time to watch the Blogging heads episode between Will Wilkinson and Goldberg, you come to see how it's a little more subtle than some think.

I thought the blogging heads segment was great and Will did a great job with it.

One point Goldberg makes that I think is true is that economic policies of the Nazis and Fascists are truly "Left-Wing" in the European social democratic sense.

The socio-cultural branding of the Right, both here and in Europe is what people tend to associate most with fascism. And it's very true. However, Goldberg's point about the top-down socialist, big government populist policies in fascism is very, very true and one that no one should ignore.

Posted by: John V at Jan 25, 2008 2:06:51 PM

John V.,

The corporatist elements of classical fascism show up in many
of the modern social democracies, although within a democratic
context, which just happens to make all the difference. The
origins of corporatism were not "on the Left" but from the
Roman Catholic Church.

The most socialist element of German Nazism was its command
control of the economy, criticized forcefully by Hayek in his
_The Road to Serfdom_. No social democratic party anywhere has
ever followed that ideologically or attempted to put it into practice.

The biggest problem with Goldberg's book is that any definition of
fascism, and certainly every self-identified fascist political party
or movement, opposed political democracy and supported nationalistic
dictatorship. Given that this is a core element of fascism, this
renders Goldberg's arguments as poor nonsense as the fulminations
of the John Birch Society about how all the "liberals" were really
all "Communists."

I do have sympathy with Tyler on his complaint that many "on the left"
have been way too quick to throw the term "fascist" at many "on the right"
in American politics. That may be what ultimately lies behind Goldberg's
current screed, but it is no more defensible. As it is, to the extent
this book has anything to it, it is well worn ground covered by the likes
of Hayek for Europe, and it is simply drivel with regard to American politics.

Posted by: Barkley Rosser at Jan 25, 2008 2:20:42 PM

Barkley Rosser,
Until social democracy came along, socialism, like fascism, was also theoretically/practically undemocratic and illiberal (in most parts of the world, it still is). Social democracy is to socialism what "liberal fascism" is to fascism. And since socialism and fascism, at their origins, were of the same seed, European social democracy isn't that different from modern American liberalism.

Posted by: Zinaida at Jan 25, 2008 2:40:09 PM

Anyone arguing that fascism isn't "really" on the right hand side of the political spectrum might as well argue that girls are actually male.

Posted by: LemmusLemmus at Jan 25, 2008 3:08:53 PM

Zinaida, what do you mean with "socialism, like fascism, was also theoretically/practically undemocratic and illiberal (in most parts of the world, it still is)."

What current socialist movements in which parts of the world?

Posted by: GreatZamfir at Jan 25, 2008 3:52:39 PM

Zinaida, what do you mean with "socialism, like fascism, was also theoretically/practically undemocratic and illiberal (in most parts of the world, it still is)."

What current socialist movements in which parts of the world?

Posted by: GreatZamfir at Jan 25, 2008 3:53:11 PM

Post a comment