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Intriguing numbers on conscientious objectors
The GAO reports only 425 applications for conscientious objector status from 2002-2006, compared with 2.3 million servicemembers (including Reserves). Just over half were approved. Read more here.
Hat Tip, Zubin Jelveh, who also notes:
For reference, the Vietnam war had about 200,000 such applications.
(Of course, Vietnam did have a draft.)
Posted by Justin Wolfers on October 1, 2007 at 08:06 PM in Data Source | Permalink
Comments
The presence of the Vietnam era draft, I would think, makes a huge difference.
Pretty good argument, or at least part of a good arguement, against conscription.
Posted by: Ray G at Oct 1, 2007 9:36:51 PM
"Of course, Vietnam did have a draft."
Isn't this point little too significant to be a caveat?
Posted by: Leo at Oct 1, 2007 9:50:19 PM
Hi Justin,
Thanks very much for the pointer. I hope you make this a regular (or at least semi-regular) gig.
On the objector numbers, I wanted to add that -- based on some crude calculations -- that when you compare the number of men who were eligible to be drafted during the Vietnam War with the current size of the armed forces, the relative number of conscientious observers is about 50 to 100 times greater during the Vietnam era than now. I'd be interested to know if the draft, or lack of one, accounts for all of this difference. What role do financial incentives like the ones outlined here play?
Posted by: Zubin at Oct 1, 2007 10:40:17 PM
Why would you become a conscientious objector after signing up voluntarily? Am I missing something?
Posted by: ralph r. emmers at Oct 1, 2007 11:11:47 PM
I would say the lack of a draft at this time shows plenty of cause for why the number of conscientious objector is so much smaller now. I think there is a pretty good chance the idea of a draft will come up in the debates for the presidential election. I would say that if the public were better educated on what it takes to list yourself as a conscientious objector, the numbers would increase during the upcoming elections.
Posted by: Kyle at Oct 2, 2007 12:03:11 AM
Why would you become a conscientious objector after signing up voluntarily? Am I missing something?
People grow. Sometimes their spiritual or intellectual growth takes them down a path where they conclude that their values and beliefs do not allow them to honor the terms of the contract.
Posted by: Brian at Oct 2, 2007 12:13:40 AM
Speaking as a draft-age male who was raised Mennonite, the lack of draft is the entire reason that I am not a conscientious objector.
Posted by: Lucas wiman at Oct 2, 2007 12:29:58 AM
Zubin, have you considered that the sample of the population in the armed forces from the Vietnam era is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT sample from the Iraq era? Why do you think they should have equivalent proportions of conscientious objectors? Why bother even doing the calculation when the units on the denominator are different?
Posted by: Russell Nelson at Oct 2, 2007 1:48:14 AM
Presumably they did collect figures for conscientious objections by enlisted soldiers (which is of course the comparable number here - the figure of 200,000 is so misleading it should not even have been presented) - does anyone know what they were?
Posted by: dsquared at Oct 2, 2007 3:13:03 AM
If they tried to send me to fight in this "war," I would object quite conscientiously.
Posted by: josh at Oct 2, 2007 8:39:12 AM
If they tried to send me to fight in this "war," I would object quite conscientiously.
And you wouldn't get CO status. CO status is based on a conscientious objection to all war, per se, not to this or that particular war.
Also, it helps a lot -- in terms of the govt's willingness to credit your claim -- if you are part of a religious community (like the Mennonites) that has traditionally held that view.
Posted by: JWR at Oct 2, 2007 9:07:27 AM
"Why would you become a conscientious objector after signing up voluntarily? Am I missing something?"
Because even though there is no longer a draft, there is a "Selective Service" registration for all citizens turning 18. This list would be used to call you up for duty in the event that Congress reinstates a draft - the point being, you basically have the recruits ready at a moments notice. Since this registration is mandatory for all forms of federal funds (including college loans) college-age kids wanting to object to this conscription would have to register first and only then, retroactively, declare conscientious objector status.
But I'm confused if this number is counting those listed as objectors within the SS system also or only the active and reserve forces.
Posted by: alsayko at Oct 2, 2007 9:59:12 AM
"Why would you become a conscientious objector after signing up voluntarily? Am I missing something?"
In principle, I can imagine someone enlisting to become a defender of the U.S. against invasion, but becoming a conscientious objector when "defense" turns into wars of aggression against foreign governments.
Of course, anyone enlisting in the past few years should be on notice that they would be at the disposal of the foreign policy objectives of the U.S. president rather the defenders of freedom and liberty at home.
Posted by: Mike Giberson at Oct 2, 2007 10:40:59 AM
*draft-age male here*
And, about registering for the draft, you don't have to do anything. Around your 18th Birthday, they send you a card saying that you are now officially registered. The only thing you have to do is send them the attached postcard if any of your information is wrong. So many possible conscientious objectors may not even know they're registered, especially if their parents take all their mail and weed through it.
Posted by: GCB at Oct 2, 2007 1:43:19 PM
Even if there were a draft, I think the social stigma against homosexuality has declined significantly enough since the late 1960s that the favored method of dodging the draft would be do declare that one has engaged in homosexual activity, and thus be ineligible for military service (under the current rules, anyway).
Posted by: Anthony at Oct 2, 2007 4:18:12 PM
People grow. Sometimes their spiritual or intellectual growth takes them down a path where they conclude that their values and beliefs do not allow them to honor the terms of the contract.
People change. If they change in a direction that leaves them less willing to be shot at, are you convinced that it can only be because they have grown?
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