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Advice for the college bound
Your kid is going away to college for the first time (Yana is going to Franklin and Marshall, by the way; boo-hoo but of course we are proud of her). What advice do you offer her (or is it me?), keeping in mind that all strictures must embody economic reasoning in some form or another?
Posted by Tyler Cowen on July 19, 2007 at 12:00 PM in Education | Permalink
Comments
Take calculus in college, even if you placed out of with AP.
Posted by: H at Jul 19, 2007 12:06:26 PM
The quantity of advice demanded by your daughter will be inversely related to the quantity of advice supplied.
Posted by: William Dunn at Jul 19, 2007 12:10:27 PM
The marginal utility curve for studying is steep at first, then reaches a fairly flat plateau.
Posted by: Steve at Jul 19, 2007 12:11:22 PM
drop out. the cost of college is outrageous; thanks largely to the internet, the cost of a real education is drastically reduced. as for other "value" that college adds -- connections, friends -- i believe there are ways to obtain those benefits but at a much lower cost (travel, get a job in a college town, get an internship/apprenticeship).
Posted by: kid mercury at Jul 19, 2007 12:15:25 PM
Major in one of the "hard" sciences: Mathematics, Engineering, Chemistry, or Physics so that you have something to show for your four years. If you want to major in English, by all means do it, but do a double with Math. I speak from personal experience. After finishing a political science degree, I realized I didn't have anything tangible (or testable) to show from it and dove into mathematics.
I sincerely believe that a major or minor in one of the hard sciences makes a student much more employable - people are more likely to think they're smart. And judging by lists of the highest paying undergraduate degrees, I'm on the right track.
Posted by: TC at Jul 19, 2007 12:17:42 PM
Also, I recommend that she be promiscuous. She's probably not internalizing all the benefits of giving it up, so the amount of casual sex, in equilibrium, is undersupplied.
I tried that argument on all the female econ students who would listen, but none bought it.
Posted by: Steve at Jul 19, 2007 12:18:23 PM
Take generic freshman courses (English 101, Math 101, etc) at a community college and transfer the credits in. As long as you pass the credits will transfer, but the grade won't affect your GPA.
This way you don't have to worry about being in a lab or class run by one of the hundreds of grad students who aren't that great at teaching.
Posted by: Mark S. at Jul 19, 2007 12:26:01 PM
Snippets from my own college life:
Go to your professor's office hours. Get to know them outside the context of class (when you're not in their class.) Some of the most interesting people I know are professors. Same goes for graduate assistants (and yes, it's okay to date a grad student, as long as he doesn't grade your papers).
If you're career oriented, get an internship as quickly as humanly possible, during the semester, even. Competition for popular careers is extremeley keen, so 1) fill out your resume asap, and 2) it's incredibly easier getting a job from a contact then going though the front door. If you can land a job before senior year, you'll save yourself the interview gauntlet and a whole lot of stress.
Don't care when other people think/call you a frosh; make friends with upperclassmen, they'll have their own hard-earned advice about your school.
Study abroad. European schools are much easier, and it looks good on your resume.
Don't study too hard...grades will seem super-important now, but the things I remember after college are the friends and experiences.
Posted by: Steve L at Jul 19, 2007 12:41:05 PM
I agree with Steve L - Office Hours, internships, study abroad.
Posted by: Michael Tinkler at Jul 19, 2007 12:42:57 PM
Drop out now and put 4 years of tuition into equity investments.
Posted by: 8 at Jul 19, 2007 12:46:03 PM
I'll tell you what my parents told me. You need to know that we are Scots.
1) Mum: "Keep yourself (pause) clean, dear."
2) Dad: "Be sure to take out English girls: you can afford beer but not whisky."
Posted by: dearieme at Jul 19, 2007 12:47:25 PM
For Tyler: however much you would worry and be sad that Yana isn't down the hall/stairs/whatever direction she is in the house from you, do that less. You don't seem like a worrier, but I think my parents suffered more than necessary from worry. The optimal amount seems to be really close to none.
For Yana: however much fun you plan on having, switch your allocation to a little more fun and a little less studying. That includes switching from studying the boring subject on your plate to the fun subject from time to time. I have almost no memories from my introductory polisci courses, but tons of fun ones from drama, history, and non-euclidean geometry.
For both: disregard what we're telling you, because we're probably wrong anyway.
Posted by: jared at Jul 19, 2007 12:52:34 PM
The education is free the degree costs so take free classes on line or even audit in classes and CLEP what you can for the degree.
Posted by: Floccina at Jul 19, 2007 12:55:48 PM
Beyond at least average grades, the most valuable things are your network of friends and activities. The best jobs often come from personal contacts, so it pays to party.
Posted by: Caru at Jul 19, 2007 12:56:20 PM
I agree with TC. Major in a hard science. I didn't. now I'm forced to go to law school to make my UG seem worth wile.
Posted by: thehova at Jul 19, 2007 12:57:07 PM
Free advice may reflect what it's worth, but here's my 38 cents worth...
Buy her a MacBook with 2MB of RAM and Parallels software. This puts two or more powerful computing devices in Yana's hands for less than $1900 and includes software she can use immediately. Using the built-in camera and iChat you can see and hear from her routinely with no long distance costs now and when she studies abroad. F & M uses the eDisk content management system and Blackboard for course management. Both systems are robust and have a small learning curve. Load Netvibes as her home website and take an hour to subscribe to blogs, weather, and news sites for Pennsylvania. It'll save her time and give her updated info every time she logs on.
Spend the rest of the summer calling all fast foods 'fat foods' and warn her that exercising in college is akin to breathing while swimming. It may seem like going without will save time but it has nasty side effects. The two greatest factors in undergraduate success are the number of professors she gets to know and the number of books she will read. Suggest that if she wants to drink in college she can if it's in a one full book to one beer ratio. If it falls to one for one page, she's in trouble (experience speaking here).
Keep a list of friend/roomate/housemate names near your phone. Ask about them often. You probably did this with high school kids you saw all the time and you'll be tempted to forget this type of interaction with people you don't see. New people live with/near her; Ask about them.
That's all I can think of without sounding too much like a freaked out dad.
Posted by: Eric at Jul 19, 2007 12:58:15 PM
I'm sure she will value your empirical experience the most (tell us it if you will). As a chem prof and freshman advisor at a selective school, I suggest she take at most a moderately challenging course load first semester. I see some students who want to sign up for semesters from Hell, not being calibrated on how hard the particular average course is. Where possible, choose courses based on the lecturer, not the subject. A good teacher will make any course worthwhile. If interested in the sciences, try starting research as soon as possible, even the second semester. It is better to create new knowledge than recycle old knowledge. I somewhat disagree with Mark S. A great introductory course can create the cognitive organizational framework to really understand a discipline, and that is more likely to be found at a place like F&M. Perhaps someone else can turn this into econ-speak.
Posted by: rhodium at Jul 19, 2007 1:02:36 PM
> Definitely agree with TC. Hard sciences and engineering are where you want to be. Bonus for combining them with humanities.
> Take a micro econ elements class no matter what your major is (preaching to the choir here.) (Hat tip to Joel Splosky, who has some more good advice for college.) Also, take as much statistics as you can stand.
> Base class selection on the professor as much or more than the content. Don't just go on reputation; take the time to attend a lecture or at least talk to a former pupil.
> Figure out who are the best professors outside your department and take a couple of their classes each year.
> After college, go spend two years as an analyst on Wall Street. This will do five things: (1) you will learn that one person can do the work of four, (2) you will get a serious crash course in accounting and finance (3) you will learn what business leaders think about and how to talk to them, (4) afterwards, you can probably get any job you like, and (5) you will make enough money to take the summer off when you are done. Analyst jobs are fairly competitive - engineering will give you a leg up - but you need to start getting ready for this in your sophomore year.
Posted by: Timothy at Jul 19, 2007 1:23:26 PM
What degree she goes for should deeply depend on her interests and on what university she attends.
Compare the marginal value of a unit of effort, not the absolute value of a degree.
State school students may be more employable earning an engineering degree, but a student at an Ivy will be much more employable by studying with an English major, a math or finance minor, and the 3.8 GPA that enables, than with an engineering degree. Also, they will have far more time to make the contacts which provide the main value added from their degree. The extra 20 hrs a week for partying pay much better returns per hour than they would earning the same GPA in a harder major.
Real education is free, so maximize degree quality when in college and learn later unless you have self-motivation problems
Posted by: michael vassar at Jul 19, 2007 1:24:11 PM
I remember the best advice I got when going to college. A guy a couple of years senior to me said "Remember to take coat-hangers". I did and, sure enough, I
needed them.
Posted by: Michael H. at Jul 19, 2007 1:26:20 PM
I don’t buy this stuff about the obvious value of a BA in a hard science. The least employable people I knew out of university were people with Chemistry BAs. Over qualified and under trained to be lab technicians and way under qualified for the reality of ‘being a professional chemist.’ I imagine the same is true of biologists and probably a lot of physicists. This is especially true if you live in a country that is not like the U.K. What seems to matter there is where you went to school and not at all what you have studied. London is apparently full of management consultants with BAs in Latin, etc…. How is it on this front in the US?
The main question to ask is ‘do I want a specific and clear career path out of university or do I want an interesting education.’ If it is the first thing you want become an engineer of some sort, a pharmacist, a doctor, a lawyer, etc…. If you choose philosophy, economics, political science, cultural geography, etc… be aware that it is going to take you a little longer to find your way once you are out. There is just nothing more annoying than a poli-sci grad surprised and complaining at the end of four years there are no obvious political science jobs.
Posted by: aaron_m at Jul 19, 2007 1:26:47 PM
From the very start realize that in four years you will be evaluated either by a graduate admission committee or employers. Plan your summers / grades / classes / internships / experiences accordingly.
Posted by: Chris Albon at Jul 19, 2007 1:41:40 PM
I also agree with TC. I was an English major that went on to grad school in Computer science and then Finance. Luckily for whatever reason I did calc through diff. equations as an undergrad despite my major. Steve's got some good advice too.
Posted by: bob at Jul 19, 2007 1:43:39 PM
Double major with one major in what you enjoy in the humanities/softer social sciences and the other in the sciences/engineering/economics.
If you single major in the latter, particularly economics, make sure you take a sufficient number of courses in the humanities so that you become a well-rounded and well-cultured person who won't think of complex things within the bounds of a particular way of thinking (see Becker?)
Alternatively, major in what you think you might want to go to grad school in/field you might want to work in, and minor in something more whimsical. Strangely enough, my college minor in Classics helped me get noticed as someone different and potentially more interesting in a stack of other applications for a job I eventually got.
Posted by: Anon at Jul 19, 2007 1:44:15 PM
I disagree about the hard sciences. They are getting increasingly technical and narrow. Physics is still probably a good bet for a "prove you're wicked smart" major, but math and philosophy are better for that, if she can swing it.
She should decide relatively quickly what she wants to do after college, and shouldn't be afraid to take some easy classes in order to get the grades that will put her there. (You should probably make this point to her personally; students with academics in the family tend to have trouble treating learning as a cynical attempt to further one's life goals by assembling a CV that provides good signals.)
Don't stay together with anyone longer than, say, six months. That ends poorly for everyone.
Posted by: string at Jul 19, 2007 1:45:05 PM
