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No one makes you shop at Wal-Mart
The title of Tom Slee's book, No One Makes You Shop at Wal-Mart, is ironic; Slee's goal is to show why this response to the success of Wal-Mart is inadequate. More generally, Slee attacks MarketThink:
In the world according to MarketThink, the combination of choice and the market is a mechanism for solving problems and improving outcomes in areas as diverse as education, city growth and culture.
Hmmm...sound familiar? (The links, also ironic, are mine not Slee's.) Let the irony continue, I recommend No One Makes You Shop at Wal-Mart.
Slee's book is the best of the anti-market books: it is well written, serious, and knowledgeable about economics. In fact, I regard Slee's book as an excellent primer on asymmetric information, free riding, externalities, herding, coordination problems and identity - Economics 301 for all those budding young Ezra Klein's of the world who think that Economics 101 isn't quite right.
Here is one bit. Early on Slee makes a good point about preferences and outcomes:
The prisoner's dilemma shows how, as soon as one person's choice alters the outcome for another person...choices do not reveal preferences...instead of thinking about choices as revealing preferences, it pays to think of choices as 'replies' to the actions or likely actions of others. The best choice you can make is the best reply to the likely actions of others.
Later, he drives the point home with a nice example:
Faced with the observation that few children walk to school anymore, we commonly hear that this tendency represents our preferences: that "people won't walk" anymore. But this is oversimplified. What we are seeing is one equilibrium among many, and perhaps not the best one. There is an equilibrium in which no one wants their children to walk along empty streets, and so no children walk, but there is another equilibrium in which many children enjoy walking with groups of other children, and parents feel safe about their children because there is safety in numbers on the busy sidewalks.
...Too many cities have concluded that empty sidewalks are a result of our preferences...but once a city takes it as a given that most children will be driven to school, there is no need for the city to even build sidewalks in new subdivisions, and there is more temptation to build fewer, bigger schools rather than more, smaller, easily accessible schools. With these decisions, the empty-sidewalks equilibrium becomes even more entrenched: we are trapped in an outcome that was the result of individual choices, but that may not represent our true preferences.
Naturally, I have some criticisms which I will save for the extension.
In increasing order of seriousness.
As noted, the heart of the book is a well-written primer on let's call it new economics. As such, this book would make a good supplement to an advanced undergraduate class. But the activism and attacks on MarketThink are occasionally distracting. Chapter 1, for example, opens with a denunciation of inequality. Nothing wrong with that but Slee doesn't even attempt to show that there is any connection between rising inequality and the failure of MarketThink theories. He just lumps things he doesn't like into one pile. If there were no asymmetric information, no herding, no coordination problems and so forth I guarantee that there would still be plenty of inequality.
For the most part, Slee illustrates the new economics with insightful, interesting and often new examples. But there are clunkers. I almost threw the book at the wall when he started talking about QWERTY. Surely, Slee knows that this worn-out example is a joke? The supposed superiority of the DVORAK keyboard was shown in studies conducted by ... Dvorak. See here. It's especially annoying that Slee did not reference, Winners, Losers & Microsoft.
As primer, it's fine to illustrate with examples and move on but as an attack on markets one expects a balanced consideration of opposing theories. For example, Slee looks at beer micro-breweries vs. mass brewers arguing that we are currently stuck in the bad mass-equilibrium because micro-breweries rely on word-of-mouth but the institutions which sustain the word-of-mouth equilibrium only work when there are already lots of micro-breweries about which one can talk. Nice, but here is an alternative theory. Economies of scale made mass produced beer cheaper and when push came to shove consumers chose the cheaper good product over the more expensive but slightly better product (I don't eat at 5 star restaurants every night). New technologies, however, have made micro-brewing more economic and as they have done so we are moving to the mass-customization world that Slee prefers. Consumers have gotten the best of all worlds - given scarcity - in both time frames. The beer activists in England that Slee likes moved the process along but in the direction that it was already going.
There is no comparative analysis in the book at all. No discussion, for example, of how free riding, asymmetric information, herding etc. distorts government choice. Also, no appreciation that what some of us MarketThink people really advocate is civil society which includes non-profits and voluntary collective action of all kinds. And, no we are not all corporate shills (p. 106).
It's true that outcomes do not always illustrate preferences but often they do. Maybe people really do not want to walk to school. It's subtle but Tom seems all too eager to call in the government to force us into the better equilibrium. I worry when people start talking about how government can help us to express our true preferences. Isn't this what dictators always say? True freedom is oppression.
The chapter on power is terrible, I did throw the book against the wall. Perhaps in order to prepare us to welcome government as the deliverer of our true preferences, Slee wants to diminish the distinction between liberty and coercion. But a true liberal should never write things like this:
...the formal structure of democracy and free markets is not enough to rule out exploitation and plunder - characteristics usually associated with repressive regimes.
If Tom visits GMU (I happen to know he reads MR) he should watch out because I shall kick him in the shins stating, "I refute you thus."
More seriously, repressive governments around the world threaten, rob, torture and murder with impunity. Courageous individuals have died trying to escape such regimes while others have died fighting for their rights. No matter how great are differences in wealth, it is morally wrong to equate what goes on in repressive regimes with capitalist acts between consenting adults.
Posted by Alex Tabarrok on May 18, 2007 at 07:22 AM in Books, Economics, Education | Permalink
Comments
Thanks for this excellent review.
Posted by: jp at May 18, 2007 8:02:37 AM
"the formal structure of democracy and free markets is not enough to rule out exploitation and plunder - characteristics usually associated with repressive regimes."
Perhaps its the lack of context, but I see nothing very objectionable in this. It strikes me that only a particularly uncharitable reading would interpret him as morally equating the two systems.
Posted by: conchis at May 18, 2007 8:27:01 AM
I think the bit about breweries is a bit skewed:
"Economies of scale made mass produced beer cheaper and when push came to shove consumers chose the cheaper good product over the more expensive but slightly better product"
Prior to *prohibition* the U.S. had a great diversity of breweries iirc. When prohibition was the law of the land, only the giant brewers had the resources to survive. Smaller breweries either sold out or shut down.
It seems to me that it wasn't consumer preference that drove a preference for mass produced beer, but big-G government interference in legislating morality and squashing a market.
Posted by: Keith Sader at May 18, 2007 8:46:44 AM
Conchis,
"the formal structure of women are not enough to rule out rape and exploitation- characteristics usually associated with psychopaths."
Interesting...
Posted by: Fresca at May 18, 2007 8:46:48 AM
I second the thank-you for the fine review.
Posted by: John Goes at May 18, 2007 8:48:20 AM
1) Thanks for the review.
2) On the subject of freedom and repression, one of the most fundamental tests of any polity is, "Which way do the border guards face?" Those who remember the Berlin Wall may recall that more people were shot trying to get out of East Berlin than trying to get in.
Posted by: Acad Ronin at May 18, 2007 9:21:12 AM
Slee's example about multiple equilibria re children walking being an application of the Prisoners Dilemma is confused and wrong. In the Prisoners Dilemma, there's only one equilibrium, involving dominant strategies. There's an outcome in dominated strategies that's better for the participants, but that's often super hard to sustain due to the attraction of the dominant strategy. (That's why some smart folks several thousand years ago came up with stuff like "morals" and rules like "Thou shalt not steal"). What he's talking about in the example is a coordination game with multiple equilibria, not a Prisoners Dilemma at all. Unless you mischaracterize his example, I would regard this as a serious error and a fundamental misunderstanding of the very theories he's attempting to use to attack markets.
Posted by: Don at May 18, 2007 9:48:29 AM
The "new economics" is awfully self serving. If you can't "reveal your own preferences", then it takes elites to do so. Guys like... Tom Slee.
What I enjoy about economics is its positiveness. N
Hey, it's not unlike the studies of the Dvorak keyboard!
Posted by: Buzzcut at May 18, 2007 9:49:55 AM
Prohibition had some historical importance, but the barriers to entry to microbrewing are not so high that you would expect a policy that was repealed in the '30s to have much effect.
Posted by: Zach at May 18, 2007 9:59:30 AM
Don,
Slee does not use the prisoner's dilemma to explain the coordination game. He uses the pd to explain that outcomes don't tell you about preferences when people's choices are tangled. Then he drives *that* point home with many other examples. Thus any confusion should be attributed to my wording in the review not to Slee.
Alex
Posted by: Alex Tabarrok at May 18, 2007 10:07:25 AM
I will at least agree that it's upsetting that so many people use the "No one makes you shop at Wal-mart" defense. But then, many less-refined Wal-mart critics' claims in fact reduce to a claim that people are too stupid to know what's best for them.
A serious discussion of the issue would recognize that e.g. if some law heavily favors big-box stores, it may not be forcing you to shop at Wal-mart, but it is artificially skewing your incentives to the winner in the big-box store race, which is probably Wal-mart. But this is hard for me to agree with since, if anything, Wal-mart has bigger hurdles to face than smaller stores.
Posted by: Person at May 18, 2007 10:11:34 AM
"And, no we are not all corporate shills (p. 106)."
And in your defense?
Posted by: The Tsunami at May 18, 2007 10:40:41 AM
Zach,
Prohibition ended in the thirties but many regulations of alcohol production remained.
According to the link above it was not till 1979 that micro brewing started to be legalized.
It took additional years for the first state to start changing the laws in a way that would allow a micro brewery to be economically feasible.
Posted by: TJIT at May 18, 2007 10:57:57 AM
Zach,
Re: MicroBreweries, Prohibition may have been repealed in the '30s, but the thick layers of bureaucracy regarding alcohol sales still exists. It's difficult for small brewers to sell across state lines, just as it's difficult for small wineries to do the same.
Posted by: Xmas at May 18, 2007 11:02:00 AM
Buzzcut cuts to the heart of the matter: so how do we determine what our "true" preferences are if we are not actually choosing them for ourselves? In the "New Economics", the answer always seems to be "government bureaucrats" who are going to determine, through their greater enlightenment, what is actually best for us poor fools. Even with purely democratic governmental action, I challenge anyone to demonstrate that the outcomes in total will ever be as or more reflective of true preferences than those demonstrated by the sum of individual, voluntary transactions.
Indeed, the examples that Tabarrok highlights from Klee's book seem to be very, very weak cases to me:
In the case of beer, I have yet to find a single place in the United States where one cannot get beer from microbrewaries, if that is what one wishes to choose.
In the case highlighted by the ironic title of the book (doubly ironic, in my opinion), I have yet to see any Walmart location, and I have seen over a hundred, that did not also include the entire gamut of retail-store types, including the mom-pop types that are so beloved by the new economists and others on the Left. So, yes, it is enough to state that "no one makes you shop at Walmart" since Walmart is not a monopoly.
The case of children walking/not walking to school needs a more in-depth examination. Let us grant that some parents would have their children walk to school if some critical mass of other parents also choose this option. However, if not enough parents choose the option, then no one does; so, what is lost? Nothing prevents like-minded parents from aggregating their children into groups that are safe enough to walk to school, and, if they are unable to gather this critical mass, the only other option is to coerce the choice on others. Indeed, in this example where there is no critical mass for safety, it is still a choice not to cooperate to make the option "available". Extending this to the argument that developers then start producing housing divisions lacking sidewalks, again, I say, so what is lost? There is still housing being produced with sidewalks, and it is a choice people make to live in one type or the other.
In summary, if the the review is any indication of the content, I would have to pass on this book. Almost every similar argument against the free market I have read basically reduces to a desire to prevent free transactions of certain types that the new economists don't like- like shopping at Walmart, eating Big Macs, forgoing health insurance, or working for sub-minimum wages.
Posted by: Yancey Ward at May 18, 2007 11:06:21 AM
Alex,
Your alternative theory on lack of microbrew was
Economies of scale made mass produced beer cheaper and when push came to shove consumers chose the cheaper good product over the more expensive but slightly better product.My alternative theory is government action ensured that the citizens had no choice to make.
1. Government action (prohibition) killed the infrastructure and knoweldge base needed for microbrewing to exist. It also killed the consumer base of customers who were used to and liked the craft brewed style of beer.
2. Ongoing government regulations made micrbrewing illegal into the 1980s (at least).
3. Ongoing government regulation and rent seeking by existing beer distributors place micro brewing at a commercial disadvantage to major brewers. The major brewers can afford a platoon of lawyers, and lobbyists, microbrewers can't.
The link below gives a good example of the massive effort needed to deal with regulatory and legislative issues.
Government Affairs & Legal Update - February 2006
Micro brewing will continue to grow but thanks to government action it is at least 50 years behind where it would have been.
The pernicious impact of many government regulations across wide segments of society and the negative impact they have on civil society are often not recognized.
Posted by: TJIT at May 18, 2007 11:22:32 AM
On an unrelated note, does anyone know what happened to Megan McArdle's weblog? I keep getting an "Account Suspended" notice.
Posted by: Yancey Ward at May 18, 2007 11:24:36 AM
Tsunami -- What is your definition of a corporate shill?
Posted by: jp at May 18, 2007 11:25:49 AM
Alex, thanks for the clarification. I've been thinking some more about Slee's argument for the potential existence of multiple equilibria embodied in the example of children walking to school (or not). I think what bothers me most is the absence of empirical support for his assertion. One would think that if coordination is possible on either equilibrium, there would be some communities that coordinate on the "walking" equilibrium, just as Great Britain and Japan coordinate on the driving-on-the-left equilibrium. Moreover, if this equilibrium is preferred, folks will reveal this preference by voting with their feet (there's those darn markets again) and moving into such communities. Evidence for this is thin on the ground. And so Slee is left to argue that markets don't allow people to express their true preferences, because people's true preferences are what Slee says they are. In short, the position of the tyrant.
Posted by: Don at May 18, 2007 11:33:04 AM
This is essentially a "search" problem. We can get "stuck" in a local optimum, where people take actions given a certain context, reinforcing the suboptimal situation.
It seems reasonable to suppose that special action may be required to find the optimum. I would be interested to know the theory on how to take such special action.
Since the government is the people (in an ideal democracy), it is not clear that the government is the best tool for this. Why can't people just decide, without the government, that something special must be done?
This must have been written about before. Can anyone recommend a resource?
Posted by: mk at May 18, 2007 11:54:14 AM
Anyone who disagrees with him
Posted by: Matt at May 18, 2007 11:55:58 AM
From Don:
And so Slee is left to argue that markets don't allow people to express their true preferences, because people's true preferences are what Slee says they are. In short, the position of the tyrant
Exactly!
Posted by: Yancey Ward at May 18, 2007 12:03:16 PM
I suppose some options are the following:
1) A bunch of more-or-less isolated individuals "suck it up" and make otherwise suboptimal choices on the hope that, with enough like-minded people, the situation will eventually change.
2) A bunch of passionate people start an organization devoted to coordinated action in pursuit of the new optimum. Social camaraderie, the pleasant feeling of improving the world, and some estimate of the expected gain from achieving the new world all factor into motivation.
3) Individuals band together without a formal organizational structure, and make coordinated decisions in pursuit of the new optimum. Again, social camaraderie and the hope of improving the world are part of the motivation.
4) Individuals or organizations lobby the government to create the conditions favorable for the new optimum. This has the advantage of tapping into a large pool of tax revenue, as well as the power to coerce, if the lobbying is successful.
One irony that Alex does not quite make explicit is that libertarians like him support a substantially different society too-- and have their own vision of the global optimum, which may be hard to achieve because it is fairly far away from the status quo. There are all sorts of coordination games (lobbying, government largesse) supporting the current welfare state.
As Alex and others have said, the real question is not whether suboptimal situations arise, but rather how we decide which situations are "more optimal", and how to pursue those different optimums.
Posted by: mk at May 18, 2007 12:08:30 PM
mk asked: "Since the government is the people (in an ideal democracy), it is not clear that the government is the best tool for this. Why can't people just decide, without the government, that something special must be done?
"This must have been written about before. Can anyone recommend a resource?"
I don't have a resource to recommend, but I heard William F. Buckley say something at a campus lecture about 10 years ago that seems relevant: "Nothing magical happens to dollars to make them worth more if they first pass through Washington before being spent on public programs."
Posted by: jp at May 18, 2007 12:23:00 PM
There is no excuse for a serious person not to know about the fallacious QWERTY story, since Liebowitz and Margolis have all their work available at this site.
Posted by: Patrick R. Sullivan at May 18, 2007 12:41:28 PM
Is the determining factor in whether parents let their kids walk to school or not really the number of other kids walking to school?
I would think that far more dominant factors would be the distance to the school and the (perceived) safety of the neighborhood that you have to walk through to get to the school.
Safety in numbers seems like a factor only at the margins.
Maybe I should read the book...
Posted by: Bob Montgomery at May 18, 2007 12:42:09 PM
My beef with this, I suppose, is that I'm not particularly interested in him shoving a "better" equilibrium down my throat, nor in anybody else doing so, for that matter. My choices do reveal preferences, preferences that are naturally conditioned on everybody else's preferences and the effects they have on my environment. That, in and of itself, says nothing remarkable. My choices/preferences are also conditioned on the fact that I live in an industrial society, need oxygen to breathe, have two arms and live on a rocky world in the Sun's liquid water zone. What of it? What makes his vision (or anybody else's) of what the "better" equilibrium might be any better than my own? He can't even fall back on democracy as an answer given his other statements, not that I'd accept it in any case.
Posted by: Bernard Guerrero at May 18, 2007 12:46:31 PM
"But this is hard for me to agree with since, if anything, Wal-mart has bigger hurdles to face than smaller stores."
Um, what? By "bigger hurdles," do you mean dictating prices to its suppliers? That sounds like a hurdle any mom and pop store wouldn't mind being saddled with.
Posted by: fustercluck at May 18, 2007 12:47:49 PM
mk asked:
Why can't people just decide, without the government, that something special must be done?
The answer, which I suspect you already know, is that doing it via government allows coercion to prevent others from fulfilling their preferences.
Posted by: Yancey Ward at May 18, 2007 12:51:55 PM
Um, what? By "bigger hurdles," do you mean
Don't be dense. They experience a hostile regulatory environment everywhere they go, and power-mad city "leaders"
that want to punish them for anything and everything. Their business is out in the open, with little lattitude to get
away with untaxed, under-the-table payments. Their ability to "dictate" prices is solely a function of their general success at attracting consumers. Many businesses (like Snapper) refuse to have their products carried at Wal-mart, so they clearly have a choice.
Posted by: Person at May 18, 2007 1:43:32 PM
No one makes mom and pop enterprises try to compete with WalMart instead of supplying things WalMart doesn't supply.
Posted by: happyjuggler0 at May 18, 2007 1:44:21 PM
The one who should really be thanking Alex is me, of course, and I do. It's a very generous review.
I have responded, in too much length for a comment, at http://whimsley.typepad.com/whimsley/2007/05/marginal_revolu.html, which I think also addresses some of the comments made here.
Posted by: tom s. at May 18, 2007 1:53:23 PM
omg omg omg omg Tom Slee mentioned me in his post:
In the comments section of a recent Marginal Revolution post about the Cato Institute Minimum Wage article I said "My employer requires that I follow instructions from my manager or I can be fired. Is that also coercive? Yes." and another commenter responded "No, refusing to buy future labor from you is not coercive."
That was me! :-)
But then the follow up is disappointing.
I can see what he or she means, but you can also see the false dichotomy here - the law is coercive, everything else is a matter of choice. Tell that to (among many many examples) workers locked-in overnight at Wal-Mart stores.
Er, what? I don't see how I was making that dichotomy there. I was refuting Tom's claim that firing (ceasing future labor purchases) is coercive, since that was one case that I absolutely could not see as being coercive. What does that have to do with locking people in a store?
Was slavery coercion? Yes, and it would surely be a stretch to see slavery as a problem rooted in the state.
I disagree. Free market proponents have long argued that slavery's immorality is reflected in its economic inefficiency, and free markets best reveal this inefficiency to self-interested actors. For an exposition see e.g. Robert P. Murphy's recent interview on frontpagemag.com.
Posted by: Person at May 18, 2007 2:14:49 PM
Some guy commenting on amazon has a good point:
>It's true that no completely scientific studies have been done on Dvorak vs Qwerty, but it hardly takes a study to see that Dvorak is better. Qwerty was created before touch typing was ever dreamed of. It's no better than an alphabetic arrangement.
>Anyone who touch types knows that some words are harder to type than others because you have to reach for awkward keys or one finger has to do too much work. Dvorak simply makes the common keys easier to get to and all but eliminates the need for one finger to type two letters in succession. Just think of a word that's easy for you to type in Qwerty (e.g., flask), and consider that the majority of words you type in Dvorak feel like that. Do you believe these agenda driven jokers or your own fingers?
>This isn't rocket science. I don't need a study to tell me that a layout designed for touch typing will be better than one that was designed to keep primitive machines from jamming, and I don't trust the authors of a book who will set aside common sense and ignore the obvious in their quest to prove their pet theory.
Posted by: joeo at May 18, 2007 2:33:10 PM
'Some guy commenting on amazon has a good point:'
Not in any of the three paragraphs you quote, he doesn't.
Posted by: Patrick R. Sullivan at May 18, 2007 2:50:21 PM
Regarding Microbreweries, Daniel Davies, at Crooked Timber, would have you beleive that Budweiser really is a superior product. Though he may be right about Wrexham.
Posted by: Anthony at May 18, 2007 2:51:09 PM
Fun topic. I think the bottom line is that unless the author can show that government coercion can actually produce a better outcome (it can't be a Pareto improvement unless you believe 100% of people want the coerced outcome and yet are unable to self-organize for it) then the fact that there may be coordination problems which lead to lesser efficiency in market selection of revealed preferences is moot. Its also important to remember that the market can discover fill various preferences including niche ones, whereas government is better at forcing a single preference on everyone with its monopoly power.
As for beer, micro-brewed beer is nice, but its not an every day beer for a lot of people. Budweiser is easy to drink and makes more sense for a couple six packs on the beach or for your Sunday football game. Just because elite types prefer a nice micro-brew when they condescend to drink beer doesn't mean its all around "better" for all purposes. Too much heavy micro-brew makes one sick. A nice light "sex in a boat" American beer is sometimes what you want!
Posted by: liberty at May 18, 2007 3:04:55 PM
(it can't be a Pareto improvement unless you believe 100% of people want the coerced outcome and yet are unable to self-organize for it)
Alternatively, they might not understand or believe that it would be an improvement. This might be a monetary thing (e.g. some people don't believe policy X will give everyone more money, but they enact policy X and it does!), or it might actually be a case where people assume they won't like something until they experience it (e.g. vegetables-- well, not a public policy example...)
Posted by: mk at May 18, 2007 3:13:09 PM
I think that Slee's point is simply that the market alters the context for preferencess, and that fundamentally people have ideal preferences that current market configurations keep them from realizing. On that note, government configurations also keep people from realizing ideal preferences.
Charitable reading of Slee: Since both market and government keep people from realizing ideal preferences, better that it be the government, in which collective decision-making about social good is possible.
Uncharitable reading of Slee: Both market and government keep people from realizing ideal preferences, but the government does it less.
Posted by: Jason at May 18, 2007 4:22:57 PM
Joeo, the quoted comment is actually factually untrue. Around the invention of typewriter there were many speed-typing contests; one of the factors in QWERTY's ascent was the fact that this design was fairly dominant in such contests. One of the things it was optimized for—both because of speed and to prevent jamming—is making sure that you don't type two letters very nearby; alternating the hand you type with is important to typing speed and comfort. If I remember correctly, Dvorak gives something like a 5-7% boost to efficiency; it's better, but probably not enough better to justify the switchover costs. And the fact that we've only managed to improve that design by about 7% over the course of a hundred-something years is a pretty compelling testament to its effectiveness.
Posted by: Jadagul at May 18, 2007 4:25:22 PM
No matter how great are differences in wealth, it is morally wrong to equate what goes on in repressive regimes with capitalist acts between consenting adults.
Well said.
Posted by: Mr. Noah at May 18, 2007 4:41:12 PM
Ok, maybe I'm stupid and don't get the example about true preferences. Here's my question: I'm married, and I can safely say that I make some different choices about my actions than I would make if I were single, because our life together is about both our preferences, not just mine. If my spouse just said "we'll do whatever you want in every situation, sweetie", I might take some different courses of action. Does this mean my "true preferences" aren't being revealed by my actions, and I need someone to do something about it?
Posted by: LisaMarie at May 18, 2007 5:52:52 PM
'If I remember correctly, Dvorak gives something like a 5-7% boost to efficiency; it's better...'
Not proven. Most of the tests that have been conducted show no more than 4% faster (and some actually showed it to be slightly slower), which isn't enough to rule out some testing effect.
Given the computer keyboard that you can switch to Dvorak easily, and that few people bother, it's probably not any faster at all.
Posted by: Patrick R. Sullivan at May 18, 2007 5:57:55 PM
find Tom Slee defending his book and thanking Alex for the review...at his blog Whimsley... http://whimsley.typepad.com/whimsley/
Posted by: Dave Meleney at May 18, 2007 6:21:35 PM
Popular culture encourages people to conform - it makes them feel safe and accepted. We will never have a world of only microbreweries except if we evolve or if we lack decent communication/interaction. The stronger personalities and the unhealthy social misfits deviate. Sometimes society cannot distinguish between the two and that can discourage innovation and originalism. Rebelling against the Wal-Marts would only lead to society coalescing around another conglomerate or even worse, government regulation.
Posted by: Chairman Mao at May 18, 2007 6:26:38 PM
Of some interest given the evolution of the comments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_paradox - and- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_Impossibility_Theorem
Posted by: Bernard Guerrero at May 18, 2007 6:53:00 PM
Preferring beer that isn't "fairly" close to water isn't elitist any more than preferring frshly cooked Burger King burgers to ones from Burger King that were sitting around for a while and thrown into a microwave upon your order. Taste matters, which is presumably why Germans have been drinking batch brewed beer long before we rediscovered it once yet another one size fits all government failure was turned back as others have noted above.
Posted by: happyjuggler0 at May 18, 2007 7:28:34 PM
You missed my point happyjuggler. I like micro-brew too, but it isn't necessarily good for all occasions, and while you may like micro-brew and not be elitist, assuming that micro-brew is always, for all people, for all purposes better is I think a bit elitist.
Posted by: liberty at May 18, 2007 7:36:17 PM
More seriously, repressive governments around the world threaten, rob, torture and murder with impunity.
We have met the enemy and it is us, or, more seriously, a small group of us.
Conflict of interest is a powerful cause of emnity between people and if killing a few people means that my interests get first preference ... how do I subvert the government again?
Posted by: Loki on the run at May 18, 2007 10:10:10 PM
Indeed, the review was generous. Too generous, by far. Invoking "coordination problems" with market solutions is waving a magic wand. Do you have a magic wand? I don't, and I've never seen one either. If a problem is hard to solve, it's hard to solve. Neither markets nor governments have any magic wand to solve hard problems. If it's hard for people to coordinate through markets, it's also going to be hard for people to convince their legislators to do anything about the problem -- and for the same reasons.
Ultimately, people who don't like markets, don't trust the people around them. They want smarter people to run the lives of the stupid people around them. The problem here is that EVERYBODY"s lives get run by the government, which is no solution because that leaves nobody to run the lives of the people who are working for the government. Saying that markets can't solve problems but governments can is just pushing back the problem by one "meta". Doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it harder to see that the problem isn't being solved.
Posted by: Russell Nelson at May 19, 2007 1:28:29 AM
Two criticisms of your review:
(1) "I worry when people start talking about how government can help us to express our true preferences. Isn't this what dictators always say? True freedom is oppression."
Alex, all in all not a bad review, but the above passage leaves something to be desired. Your worry is not a refutation. The book is significant because it is a counterpoint to exactly this statement!
More significantly, your review presents the book as an academic exercise ("a good supplement to an economics 301 course" but ultimately lacking in academic rigor ("no comparative analysis," "fails to cite," "uses bad sources," "makes overly sweeping comparison). On my reading, the book is meant for a wider audience. It isn't supposed to resolve the question, just to negative an argument in its favor "i'm afraid when the government talks about revealing our true preferences."
Posted by: ThusRefuted at May 19, 2007 2:52:52 AM
The side-walk problem is correct, but the counter question would be: Is it a problem or does he even perceive a moral dilemma here?
This is the problem with such analysis, that directly doesn't take a moral stance, but implies one indirectly without explaining why it could be a problem.
So, if Walmart takes away other alternatives, because the economics happen exactly like that, is this bad or is it an improvement. For some one critical of technology, it certainly is bad, for other's it saves time and can be an improvement...
The problem I have with those critics is not really that they might be without knowledge about economics about that their point of view on life is repressive, backwards thinking and always on the verge of using force to push their special interest through...
Posted by: Max at May 19, 2007 5:44:12 AM
The last comment ends with a nice summary of a common meme here:
"The problem I have with those critics is not really that they might be without knowledge about economics about that their point of view on life is repressive, backwards thinking and always on the verge of using force to push their special interest through..."
Here is a quote from Slee's now infamous chapter on power (p. 198):
"...limitations to choice are not on/off switches, but are a gradual restriction as a function of increasing transaction costs. In a similar fashion, as the partners in an exchange move along an axis from equality to inequality, the exchange itself moves from equal bargaining to exploitation, even when no explicit coercion takes place."
If you are a true believer in free markets (which I am) you have to look seriously at this point. General hand-waving, eye-rolling and claims about slippery slopes to totalitarianism is nothing more than confirmation bias. Regardless of your perception of Slee's motivation, what is most important is to find fault with the model or reconcile it with conflicting parts of your world view.
While reading Slee's book I had to come to grips with the fact that I believe some aspects of centralized urban planning work better than free market approaches. Why? How can this be? I too wanted to throw the book against the wall. Tabarrok links to "The Voluntary City" which I'm assuming describes free market solutions as an alternative to urban planning. I am not against the voluntary city but I think I want another community to prove it works before promoting such a solution in my own community. The reason I don't want to "eat my own dog food" is that there is a stable equilibrium in the current system that I am comfortable with and I don't want to deal with the transaction costs or unintended consequences of distrupting this equilibrium.
These are the issues Slee explores. They are important and if it takes the eyes of a skeptic to bring them to our attention so be it.
Posted by: RAD at May 19, 2007 9:00:41 AM
Another resume' for the philosopher-king position? Tell him we'll keep it on file.
Posted by: Dave at May 19, 2007 5:16:26 PM
In the comments section of a recent Marginal Revolution post about the Cato Institute Minimum Wage article I said "My employer requires that I follow instructions from my manager or I can be fired. Is that also coercive? Yes." and another commenter responded "No, refusing to buy future labor from you is not coercive."
That was me! :-)
Yeah, that's been bothering me ever since that post. "Refusing to buy" labor, like a layoff, is not coercive. But threatening to fire someone for not doing what you want is coercive. Like if my cable company doesn't offer a good enough service for their rates, I might refuse to buy cable. But if I call them instead and say, "You better offer me ESPN for the same rate or I'm canceling," then I'm trying to use my market power to coerce them. That's why I'm not one of those guys who calls up every six months and says, "I'm thinking about switching" to get a better rate. It's unethical.
Posted by: Noumenon at May 20, 2007 2:01:40 AM
Qwerty is a great example of a local equilibrium. There is simply nothing to prefer about Qwerty except that it is already popular.
I did not realize people take the "Fables" article so seriously. It debunks the old Navy study, but does a poor job attacking Dvorak in general.
A key fact that the Fables article quietly ignores is that Dvorak substantially reduces the finger-travel distance. The reduction is about a third for normal English text.
http://www.siteuri.ro/dvorak/
It would be surprising if this had no difference on speed and ergonomics. If you want to debunk Dvorak, then you need to address this.
The Fables article does not bother. In fact, it includes a fallacious counter-theory:
"The explanation for Norman and Rummelhart's factor C is that during a keystroke, the idle hand prepares for its next keystroke. Thus Sholes's decision to solve a mechanical problem through careful keyboard arrangement may have inadvertently satisfied a fairly important requirement for efficient typing."
The fact is, Dvorak is not only better on raw distance, but on a number of other measures -- including alternation of hands. Did these guys check with their own simulators, before drawing up this alternate theory?
Additionally, the Fables article makes no mention at all of repetitive stress injuries, which in my view is Dvorak's strongest point for most people.
I will leave off there before you all fall asleep reading about keyboards. The evidence is that Dvorak is better, but not enough to motivate most people to invest a month learning it.
PS -- And here is the real reason not to mention Qwerty vs. Dvorak: the mere mention, turns the discussion into one about Qwerty and Dvorak.
Posted by: Lex Spoon at May 20, 2007 8:25:57 AM
Margolis & Liebowitz's point is not that QWERTY is the best possible keyboard layout or even the best one that has been invented, but rather that to show a market failure it is not enough to show that another is slightly better - if the difference is small enough the failure to switch need not represent a failure to coordinate (that theoretically could be overcome by an omniscient government dictating keyboard layout by fiat) but rather could just mean that the benefits of switching don't exceed the costs (of replacing everybody's keyboard and rendering obsolete their experience with QWERTY; which costs would remain even if the switch to Dvorak was universal).
The very, very few people whose productivity is closely enough tied to their typing speed that they are better off with Dvorak (with which is unquestionably easier to attain a very high typing speed) can do so already and their documents, typed with Dvorak, can be read by or transferred to the computers of others just the same as if they had been typed in QWERTY.
Posted by: DF at May 20, 2007 11:49:37 AM
My special interest as an urbanite. urban planner and real estate developer is walking.
I thought Slee's analysis correct. (If no sidewalks then few walk leading to belief/myth that no one wants to walk.) I hear that all the time when people say that a proposed building need not have a pedestrian orientation along a particular street because "No one walks on that street."
Of course such an attitude and the resulting unfriendly streetfront will ensure that indeed no one will walk along that frontage. (Consider Disney Hall in LA.)
Could you please expand on why you think Slee wrong.
•••
As to the statement that " Nothing prevents like-minded parents from aggregating their children into groups that are safe enough to walk to school..." I suggest that something does indeed prevent such aggregation and it is called transaction costs.
Posted by: David Sucher at May 20, 2007 3:39:00 PM
I'm rather late in this discussion, but here are an excerpt from, and link to a study of some of the subsidies that Wal-Mart receives in the US:
This method, which does not catch subsidy deals that failed to gain press coverage or those reported in papers whose archives are not available, brought to light 91 stores that have received public assistance. In total, these subsidies were worth about $245 million to Wal-Mart and the developers of shopping centers in which a Wal-Mart store served as an anchor. Individual subsidy deals in those 91 stores ranged from less than $1 million to about $12 million, with an average of about $2.8 million.
Posted by: Ronnie Horesh at May 20, 2007 11:08:33 PM
"It's subtle but Tom seems all too eager to call in the government to force us into the better equilibrium. I worry when people start talking about how government can help us to express our true preferences. Isn't this what dictators always say? True freedom is oppression."
I'd expected better from you, Tabarrok, than such Godwin-worthy nonsense. Imagine that a large majority complains that they would love to use public transportation, but they can't do it, because the buses don't go often enough. This problem would be solved if a large enough part of that group did switch to public transportation, but they're stuck in the bad equilibrium.
Well, if they want to use the state as a tool to switch equilibriums, why not let them? It might be a bad decision, but you MarketThink people aren't in general in favour of protecting people from their bad decisions, are you? And it might hurt third parties (people who believe they gain nothing from PT, and don't want to chip in), but are these government "externalities" worse than the market ones?
It would be _great_ if we managed to solve some of these problems with market mechanisms. I'm a big fan of you dominant assurance contracts, that's how I came across MR in the first place, but it seems to me that there are far too many "best of all possible worlds" MarketThink people in your and econlog's comment threads, that wouldn't know a positive externality if it hit them in the face. The very reason they haven't caught on is that people think "Well, if we needed them, we'd have them already!"
In the meantime, we can judge both government-intervention and market trees by their fruits. And you can pry my culture budget from my cold dead fingers...
Posted by: Harald Korneliussen at May 21, 2007 4:37:37 AM
Yeah, that's been bothering me ever since that post. "Refusing to buy" labor, like a layoff, is not coercive. But threatening to fire someone for not doing what you want is coercive.
Too bad those are the same thing.
But if I call them instead and say, "You better offer me ESPN for the same rate or I'm canceling," then I'm trying to use my market power to coerce them.
So in other words, you don't like it when words have meaning.
Posted by: Person at May 21, 2007 11:51:05 AM
I would like to see Slee make all his arguments without using the word "market".
Posted by: Floccina at May 21, 2007 5:27:59 PM
So in other words, you don't like it when words have meaning.
I was kind of worried that someone would criticize that sentence as being merely an example of market power in action, not coercion at all. Is that what you mean?
Too bad those are the same thing.
No, I really don't think so. It's like this: you could refuse to continue this conversation with me, or you could tell me to shut up. In the first case, you're ending the relationship by exercising your freedom to act, but in the second case, you're ending it by restricting my freedom, via a show of dominance.
I realize I'm arguing mostly from moral intuitions here. Being hung up on or fired makes you feel abused. Being laid off for business reasons or ending a conversation naturally, doesn't. Maybe you think the difference is an irrational emotional reaction. I think it's a correct intuition from our monkey nature. There are power issues in firing that make a difference between coercion and simply refusing to buy.
Posted by: Noumenon at May 22, 2007 6:33:50 AM
David Sucher,
"Could you please expand on why you think Slee wrong.
...
I suggest that something does indeed prevent such aggregation and it is called transaction costs"
Correct: the problem is the barrier to self-organisation. The answer is to reduce the transaction costs, not government coercion.
By very definition, government coercion applies not just to those who were simply unable to surmount the transaction costs but also THOSE WHO REALLY DON'T WANT TO BE FORCED.
That is a fundamental distinction.
Noumenon,
Where to start....
You: "What are your rates?"
Cable: "x"
You: "that's too high, I'll go elsewhere"
Cable: "no problem"
No coercion. Agreed. You value "x" more than than you value the service and vice versa for Cable. No positive sum, no mutually beneficial trade, no transaction.
You: "Give me ESPN within my current rate of x"
Cable now has two choices: give you ESPN or call your bluff.
Cable still has a choice. Cable goes away, looks at its numbers, works out whether it thinks you are a valuable customer or a time-wasting whiner and decides what to do accordingly.
If the former, the cable company has reached its own decision that the cost of providing ESPN to you is less than the downside risk of losing you as a customer. Note that this is a *risk* - money x probability.
The cable company might well think that you are a valuable customer, but that the probability of you making good on your threat is so low that the overall risk is small.
There is no coercion: the cable company is not forced to give you something for nothing.
Imagine you had asked:
You: "Give me ESPN within my current rate of x. Oh and new car. And a hot tub full of swimwear models every Saturday evening. Or I'll switch"
Cable: "Good luck. It was nice having you as a customer".
Where is the coercion? No mutually beneficial trade, no transaction.
Try this rephrasing of your original point:
You: "Cable company Y will give me the exact same service PLUS ESPN all for your current rate of x"
Cable: "Hmmm...."
This is the exact same threat. The difference is that it is credible: the probability of your enacting your threat is now close to 1, so the value balance for the Cable company tips in your favour. There is new price information to which your cable company needs to react, but very obviously no coercion.
Posted by: Cleanthes at May 22, 2007 9:14:21 AM
And another thing!
Even if you did use the revised price information "threat" above, the cable company is *still* not forced into the corner of having to supply ESPN to you. It could decide to work on the probabilities instead.
As it stands your probability of switching is close to 1. But if the cable company can do another selling job on you it might sow sufficient doubt to halt your decision.
It needs to bring other variables to play other than simply ESPN, such as differences in the quality of service (outages, customer support) or offer something else that might be of similar value to you, but of lower cost to them.
In order for there to be coercion, you need to demonstrate that the cable company is doing something that it cannot rationally defend. I'm struggling to think of any mechanism to do this (kidnapping the MD's daughter, badmouthing them in the press that kind of thing) that isn't illegal or in some way - give or take the transaction costs - actionable.
The only really good counter-example is to change the law: that is to invoke the coercive power of the state.
You: "State Law z says that you have to provide me with ESPN"
Cable: "rats: OK".
As always however, TANSTAAFL.
The state has, coercively, loaded a cost onto the cable provider. This has to come out somewhere - reduced profit, which might cause your provider to go bankrupt in which case you get no service at all whether or not the state demands it, or more likely reduced customer service somewhere else.
Either way, the cable company will NOT thank you for forcing it to do something it did not want to. The money side of the risk equation -the value of your custom to the cable company - now looks worse. Next time you want something, you'll find the cable company will be much more likely to call your bluff.
Posted by: Cleanthes at May 22, 2007 9:33:53 AM
I was kind of worried that someone would criticize that sentence as being merely an example of market power in action, not coercion at all. Is that what you mean?
That's what I *believe*, yes, but what I meant in the passage was that a layoff *is* refusing to buy labor.
me:Too bad those are the same thing.
you:No, I really don't think so. It's like this: you could refuse to continue this conversation with me, or you could tell me to shut up. In the first case, you're ending the relationship by exercising your freedom to act, but in the second case, you're ending it by restricting my freedom, via a show of dominance.
No, telling you to shut up (by itself) is not "restricting your freedom, via a show of dominance". Now, it's true that if it contained some kind of threat, I would see your point. But you can't seriously tell me you feel threatened over the internet by someone telling you to shut up.
Now, as for your actual example (you know, what you were talking about before you changed subjects), a layoff is, by definition, a decision not to buy future labor.
I realize I'm arguing mostly from moral intuitions here. Being hung up on or fired makes you feel abused. Being laid off for business reasons or ending a conversation naturally, doesn't. Maybe you think the difference is an irrational emotional reaction. I think it's a correct intuition from our monkey nature. There are power issues in firing that make a difference between coercion and simply refusing to buy.
Well, not to coerce you, or anything, but your intuitions suck. "Feeling abused" is not the same as coercion (which was under discussion). And in any case, what if I told you that if I were laid off "for business reasons", I would assume that's just a cover story?
Your position is that ANY woman who doesn't perform ANY romantic act for me, is coercing or abusing me. That's ridiculous. Not interacting = not coercion.
Posted by: Person at May 22, 2007 11:46:35 AM
David Sucher,
So what? There are transaction costs involved in every transaction. In the case at hand, there are two options: (1) Parents who want their children to walk to school bear the costs of self-aggregation themselves, or (2) the parents get government to socialize the costs out to more people than the original group, including those who will never partake of the new benefit.
Noumenon,
Ah! A perfect example of the disagreements about what is, and is not, coercion.
In a layoff, how would you describe it if the company came to the workers and said that they would be laid off unless the employees agreed to a wage reduction? Coercion or not coercion?
A man dying of thirst comes upon a man with a gallon of water. The man with the water offers to sell half the water for $100. Coercion or not?
Posted by: Yancey Ward at May 22, 2007 11:55:05 AM
I think that people are underestimating the huge burden & expense of transaction costs
The statement "The answer is to reduce the transaction costs..." implies/suggests/requires government action. Why? Because the action of the market by itself brings those transaction costs down to the bare necessity. The market doesn't pay more to do a transaction than is needed. To get them lower you need some sort of external intervention which practically means government. If you could do it without government it would already exist.
Posted by: David Sucher at May 30, 2007 5:54:48 PM
It is very well!
Posted by: Georg at Aug 23, 2007 5:16:41 AM
Posted by: pinke at Mar 31, 2008 5:17:00 AM
Posted by: 鑽石 at Apr 2, 2008 8:14:58 PM






