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Vernon Smith on Asperger's syndrome
Yes, that's the Nobel Laureate at George Mason. Here is a short interview, including testimony by Vernon's lovely wife Candace, via Craig Newmark. Vernon is way smarter than the specialist doctor who is interviewed.
Posted by Tyler Cowen on April 30, 2007 at 10:15 AM in Education | Permalink
Comments
Why would you bother saying the specialist doctor isn't as smart as Vernon? Maybe not about economics, but he likely knows more autistic and Asperger's syndrome people than Vernon does. If he says the majority of Asperger's syndrome people need help to get the most out of life, it's likely true. Just because Vernon managed to succeed without much help, that doesn't mean that we can expect the same from every austisc/Asperger's person. If anything, it should make us more impressed with what Vernon has accomplished.
Posted by: Richard at Apr 30, 2007 11:23:16 AM
agree with richard above.
Posted by: sa at Apr 30, 2007 11:27:39 AM
Yes Tyler, that was a curious comment. Dr. Klin is only on for like 15 seconds, a short space of time in which to make a judgment, or do you know something we don't?
Posted by: adrian at Apr 30, 2007 11:43:16 AM
You're surprised when Tyler takes a potshot at a doctor?
a) Tyler is brilliant (95% Confidence Interval: Thoughtful-Genius)
b) Tyler hates doctors
c) a) and b) are mutually exclusive, and when Tyler talks about doctors, the brilliant parts of his brain are partially suppressed by a blind hatred of physicians.
Posted by: Garrett at Apr 30, 2007 11:53:50 AM
Dr. Ami Klin is an extremely respected researcher at Yale, specializing
autism spectrum disorders. He is comppletely correct that most individuals
with autism or Asperger's syndrome do not have the rare talents of Vernon
Smith, and struggle mightily to get through life. There is a romantic image
of neurodiverse individuals as tortured geniuses. This is true of
the most gifted individuals, but most are best viewed as having a
disability, plain and simple, and needing help and understanding.
(My son has high-functioning austism, but no special gifts beyond a normal
intelligence.)
Posted by: An onyx mousse at Apr 30, 2007 11:55:17 AM
If we are going to seek out inane comments, I nominate the correspondent's intro to the specialist (around the 3:50 mark):
Professor Smith's success is not typical of people with this disability.
Posted by: mobile at Apr 30, 2007 11:57:45 AM
I agree with Tyler. I know highly successful people with Aspergers. Most of them are in quantitative fields and I agree that Aspergers seems to have selective advantages which make them successful such careers.
However, Dr. Klin may not have been talking about career success. He may have been talking about success in personal relationships, which is part of overall success and which requires interpresonal skills. This is also an area in which people with Asperger's Syndrome are severely lacking and may need additional help - especially in the absence of a spouse as sympathetic to emotional distance as Candace.
Posted by: Methinks at Apr 30, 2007 12:01:43 PM
Dr Klin says that people with Aspergers need help. I know some people with Asperger's don't think they
need help. They think that "normal" people should leave then alone so they can concentrate on what
they're doing. I suppose it's possible that's what Tyler is getting at. When Klin talked about people
with Asperger's getting the life they deserve, I wondered how he could know if anyone deserves anything,
but I guess that's just me.
I used to think the kindest thing neurotypical people could do is leave people with Aspergers alone and
stop pestering them. But recently I've noticed that some neurotypical people accept people with
Asperger's and I now I think that's an even better idea.
Posted by: Ronald Brak at Apr 30, 2007 12:02:33 PM
My friend Bram Cohen is a famous aspie, too. People like him and Vernon Smith are a great inspiration to others because even though their Asperger's might not be as severe as others, they show that its possible to have a functional social life with Asperger's. It just requires handling things a bit different. Bram comments on this in some level of detail on his blog, I believe.
http://bramcohen.livejournal.com/
Posted by: Sameer Parekh at Apr 30, 2007 12:02:44 PM
Ronald
But as Richard pointed out, Dr Klin researches this area, he has presumably met a gazzillion more people with Aspergers than Vernon (as Vernon A. Has Aspergers, thus presumably doesn't talk to many others with it, and B. Is an Economist, not an Aspergers researcher) Presumably Klin knows statistical norm.
Posted by: adrian at Apr 30, 2007 12:09:54 PM
I agree with Dr Klin that people with Asperger's need help. I think all people need help in their lives,
at least early on. Obviously children can't survive without it. I think neurotypical children and
children with Asperger's might need different kinds of help to be happy and Dr Klin probably knows a great
deal about what kind of help is the most help.
(Notice how I'm terribly literal in my interpretations and use of language? I do that a lot.)
Posted by: Ronald Brak at Apr 30, 2007 12:28:33 PM
Asperger's is like many developmental disabilities. Different people are going to have different levels of difficulty adjusting to the world of "Normal" people. Some people without complete mobility are still quite athletic and can manuever much smaller, arm-powered wheel chairs. Some need the help of a larger electric chair, which would require much wider hallways to grant them access. Should we keep our hallways narrow and just expect people to use smaller mobility devices?
Geniuses with Asperger's just implies that Asperger's doesn't seem to prevent a person from being a genius. But most people aren't geniuses, both with and without Asperger's. But even geniuses don't necessarily get dates so easily. I know a few people in engineering programs with Asperger's - they're smart and employable, but that doesn't mean they're happy with their social lives. And those people with Asperger's who lost the genetic (or whatever factors contribute to raw-computing power) lottery and aren't above average intelligence lack also the social intelligence that seems to be more important in non-scientific fields which does strongly affect their employability, their social interactions, and their general happiness with their lives.
Using outlier examples of a population to make predictions of the population is bad science.
Posted by: Allison at Apr 30, 2007 2:06:57 PM
Tyler's odd comment:
Vernon is way smarter than the specialist doctor who is interviewed.
Ironically, seems to indicate that Tyler might have Asperger's....
LOL.
Posted by: Varangy at Apr 30, 2007 3:44:05 PM
Asperger's itself comes in different degrees. My son is relatively mild. A friend of his is far more extreme. The difference between their situations is very striking. Dr Klin may be especially concerned with the latter type.
Posted by: PJ at Apr 30, 2007 4:59:23 PM
"Albert Einstein, Andy Warhol and Emily Dickinson have all been found to have had Aspbergers". Oh, please. The term wasn't around when they were alive, it's not like you could test their remains for DNA proof of Aspbergers, nothing was "found" at all.
I think it's awesome that Vernon rocks the mullet even while accepting the Nobel prize.
Posted by: TGGP at Apr 30, 2007 6:42:28 PM
Thank you so much for posting this.
Posted by: John Markley at Apr 30, 2007 8:17:09 PM
You all may or may not know that Vernon is what is called "self-diagnosed." Whether doctors in the area would agree with his assessment is an open question, to say the least. (I also interpret the Yale doctor as, politely, distancing himself from Vernon's self-interpretation.) I know Vernon and side with his wisdom.
Posted by: Tyler Cowen at Apr 30, 2007 8:52:58 PM
Vernon may or may not have Asperger's, but the qualities he described in himself didn't sound Aspie. Rather, his lack of social skills and his ability to hyperfocus point more to ADD.
Posted by: Cardinal Fang at May 1, 2007 2:38:34 AM
Tyler has picked up on a sublety in Dr Klin's communication. This suggests that he does not have Asperger's.
Posted by: Ronald Brak at May 1, 2007 7:13:02 AM
How much do you want to trust someone who tries to convince you that you need their help?
Posted by: Steven at May 1, 2007 11:31:18 AM
I want to trust them enough to statistically maximise my pleasure and minimise my pain over time.
Posted by: Ronald Brak at May 1, 2007 12:05:44 PM
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Posted by: 南京北春 at Aug 21, 2007 3:18:25 AM
I was impressed with the interview of Dr. Vernon Smith, Nobel Laureate and Economist! I recognise many of the subtle mannerisms he has, in myself, and believe he has Asperger's Syndrome. I am quite high-functioning with Asperger's Syndrome, and quite articulate and I'm currently struggling with employment and education. Originally from the United Kingdom of Great Britain, I had a lot of help in terms of getting and keeping employment (I was a Registration Officer in the British Civil Service and before that a Trainee Accountant), as there are a lot of programmes (like PROSPECTS (www.nas.org.uk/prospects) to help individual's with Asperger's Disorder and High-Functioning Autism, in the United Kingdom of Great Britain. However, since moving to the Dominion of Canada, I've struggled a lot. I do believe people, even persons with high functioning Asperger's need some assistance particularly in employment. The Hawkins Institute (www.hawkinsinstitute.com) is like PROSPECTS but they are confined to Eastern Canada. I'm in the west and there really isn't much in the way of help.
Drew James
Dominion of Canada
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