Marginal Revolution: The latest data on Hispanic assimilation

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The latest data on Hispanic assimilation

Find it here, the conclusion is that Hispanics are following traditional immigration patterns and do not represent an outlier, as suggested by Samuel Huntington.

Posted by Tyler Cowen on April 3, 2007 at 03:02 PM in Political Science | Permalink

Comments

Shocking.

Posted by: SomeCallMeTim at Apr 3, 2007 3:08:38 PM

Great! A post about Hispanics and NO Steven Sailer comment (yet)!

Posted by: leo at Apr 3, 2007 3:12:30 PM

Give it a minute.

Posted by: josh at Apr 3, 2007 4:00:15 PM

If anything, assimilation measures based on language use understate the degree of assimilation, since this is taken as being "English-dominant". This ignores the fact that people can be fully bilingual, a fact almost inconceivable to most Americans. Yet, my family has managed this quite well for more than five generations (and counting), as do millions of others.

Posted by: Andres at Apr 3, 2007 4:26:18 PM

The paper mainly deals with Hispanics' knowledge of English. But is this assimilation?:"This disparity diminishes among Hispanics born in the United States who have foreign-born parents: 31 percent identify themselves as American while 43 percent describe themselves as their country of ancestry. By the third generation, the proportion of respondents choosing American as their primary identifier is a small majority (56 percent), and only 23 percent describe themselves primarily in terms of their ancestral country." I would describe the fact that 43% of the second generation do not consider themselves Americans as worrisome at best.

Posted by: Dennis Mangan at Apr 3, 2007 4:30:02 PM

You could find a dozen similar studies in decades past saying the same things about the immigrants in France, Holland, and Britain. Allowing massive immigration into Europe seemed like a good idea at the time. How's that working out for them now?

I'm sure there were studies in Detroit 50 years ago on how internal migration from the South was going well. Have you taken a look at Detroit lately? Sizable parts of are so abandoned that they are slowly being taken over by forest.

A group's attitudes change over time. One common dynamic is a trend toward greater prickliness and annoyance in later generations at still being toward the bottom of society.

It doesn't always happen that way, but why take the chance? The upside to vast unskilled migration is pretty small and the downside is pretty big. Economists call that reward vs. risk and thinking in those terms is a big part of economics ... except when the subject is immigration, at which point most of the apparatus of economic thought is thrown out the window in favor of happy-clappy wishful thinking.

Posted by: Steve Sailer at Apr 3, 2007 4:52:54 PM

"Sizable parts of are so abandoned that they are slowly being taken over by forest."

Immigration from Southern blacks causes forestation?

Posted by: Keith at Apr 3, 2007 5:07:56 PM

And Sailer wants to stop internal migration, too? Well, that would at least make him consistent....

Posted by: Keith at Apr 3, 2007 5:09:53 PM

I do have to say, though, in the case of Southern blacks, it strikes as kinda harsh to forcibly migrate a group of people to your country, then forbid them to migrate internally. But hey, I'm funny that way.

Posted by: Keith at Apr 3, 2007 5:11:54 PM

1h50m for a Sailer comment. Not bad.

BTW, Señor Sailer, could you please send a few references on "the dozen similar studies in decades past saying the same things about the immigrants in France, Holland, and Britain."?

Posted by: leo at Apr 3, 2007 5:18:24 PM

Lots of impressive economic reasoning going on in response to my comment!

Posted by: Steve Sailer at Apr 3, 2007 5:27:16 PM

Okay, Steve, here's a little econ for ya' (although, I get a sneaking suspicion that you’re entrenched).

“You could find a dozen similar studies in decades past saying the same things about the immigrants in France, Holland, and Britain. Allowing massive immigration into Europe seemed like a good idea at the time. How's that working out for them now?”

I don’t know about the “dozens” of studies in Europe. However, a big reason that things aren’t working out so well is the advanced welfare state and resulting high unemployment. Immigrants don’t have good employment opportunities and don’t assimilate in these zero-sum societies.

Detroit has much the same problem – advanced welfare state and unions.

Your stance that low-skilled immigrants into the US will meet with a similar fate will be justified if we continue to march toward a more encompassing nanny state. If not, they will have exactly the effect that immigrants have had on America they have had historically – they will add to the expansion of the economy

Posted by: Methinks at Apr 3, 2007 5:43:12 PM

A currently third generation hispanic is probably roughly 30 something. That means their parents likely were born in the 1950's. That means their grandparents immigrated in the 1930's or 1940's. Does the immigration situation of the 1940's or 1950's compare to that of today?

Posted by: Matt at Apr 3, 2007 5:44:37 PM

Assimilaton is evidenced by the "Reggaeton Hip Hop Nation":

http://www.mystrands.com/track/8311884

Of course, the Irish still have their own parades...

Posted by: Mr. Econotarian at Apr 3, 2007 5:50:30 PM

Oh, I'd say your comment is getting exactly the response it merits.

Posted by: Keith at Apr 3, 2007 5:50:55 PM

There is aggregate economic expansion and per capita GDP. If millions of people move to America, of course GDP will rise. If per capita GDP doesn't increase, however, the income gap will widen. The best way to raise the native poor is to create a tight labor market at the bottom, but instead the U.S. is flooding the bottom of the labor market, while businesses complain that they can't hire enough skilled workers. And the policy has left Americans increasingly anti-immigration because of strains on the public welfare systems.

Posted by: Matt at Apr 3, 2007 5:51:49 PM

The upside to vast unskilled migration is pretty small and the downside is pretty big.

So the US did not benefit from the vast unskilled migration of the 1800's?

Posted by: Mr. Econotarian at Apr 3, 2007 5:53:41 PM

I keep wondering when El Paso Texas is going to become like Burlington, Vermont as the huge number of poor hispanic immigrations and their children become just like regular American just like the 96% White population of Vermont.

Also, if immigration was good for the economy El Paso and Laredo would be boom towns. I have not seen many white, Ivy League educated economist moving to El Paso because the economic opprotunities are great and the 85% Hispanic population will welcome them with open arms.

Posted by: superdestroyer at Apr 3, 2007 6:06:33 PM

Well, El Paso's murder rate is lower than many a whiter town, so does that mean we oughta be making some trades?

Posted by: Keith at Apr 3, 2007 7:43:46 PM

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004902.html

El Paso has a murder rate is lower than Seattle, Columbus (Ohio), Louisville, Colorado Springs, and Wichita.

So stick that one straight up your Cudahy.

Posted by: Keith at Apr 3, 2007 7:48:43 PM

Keith,

You may want to look at some other number such as the 7% unemployment rate. Or that all of the public high schools except one are below average for Texas. Or just look at money magazine of livability. El Paso is definitely not at the top. Once again, maybe you can point out some entrepreneurs who have moved there for the tremendous economic opprotunity afford by unlimited immigration.

Posted by: superdestroyer at Apr 3, 2007 8:07:06 PM

Or just look at money magazine of livability. El Paso is definitely not at the top.

Well, I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks policy should be determined by magazine lists.

Posted by: Stu at Apr 3, 2007 8:23:47 PM

Huntington smack down alert!

In my classes at Berkeley, it's almost a sickening pleasure to Bash Sam Huntington.

Posted by: Nathan at Apr 3, 2007 8:41:40 PM

Is the label Hispanic referring to race or ethnicity? Why is it that Huntington, Citrin, Lerman, Murakami, and Pearson among other distinguished scholars use the " Hispanic vs White". It seems to me that it reduces an very varied and diversified ethnic group to a single race. I know is a little of the topic but out amongst the academic community, you would think that social scientist would be able to distinguish the difference between Sammy Sosa and Andy Garcia.

Posted by: John V. White at Apr 3, 2007 8:52:08 PM

On page 46 the authors include the caveat that "much" of the data presented excludes consideration of illegal immigrants. I think that's a pretty serious flaw in the paper. A lot of the arguments are based on survey data of how people feel about various topics, I am not sure how much weight I would give this. I would care a lot more about high school and college graduation rates and rate of use of public services as measures of assimilation.

Posted by: ben at Apr 3, 2007 9:03:38 PM

Exactly! We are going to have a growing nanny-state, and the immigrants are going to vote for an even worse one! Cowen essentially conceded the inevitability of a growing welfare state, so it seems a closed case.

Posted by: TGGP at Apr 4, 2007 12:56:48 AM

Basically, Superdestroyer has impressed me by coming up with an argument even lamer than Schaeffer's.

When confronted with evidence that El Paso has lower crime (and illegitimacy) than the vast majority of American cities, and El Paso's Hispanics have far lower rates of important social pathologies than rural whites, Superdestroyer says immigration is bad because El Paso isn't the Hamptons.

Yes, immigrants from Mexico don't immediately buy a Penthouse in Midtown Manhattan when they come over. Instead, they just raise families in a blue collar, safe, and morally upright environment.

Posted by: Keith at Apr 4, 2007 8:51:14 AM

2006 Hot Cities for Entrepreneurs from Entrepreneur.com

Best U.S. Cities for Entrepreneurs - Mid-Size Cities

1 - Mobile
2 - Charleston-North Charleston
3 - Birmingham
4 - El Paso
5 - Tucson
6 - Madison
7 - McAllen-Edinburg-Mission
8 - Columbia
9 - Knoxville
10 - Omaha

Best U.S. Cities for Entrepreneurs - Small Cities

1 - Auburn-Opelika
2 - Green Bay
3 - Yuma
4 - Laredo
5 - Huntsville
6 - Casper
7 - Las Cruces
8 - Missoula
9 - Dothan
10 - Lincoln

Posted by: Keith at Apr 4, 2007 8:53:46 AM

Keith,

All the data you provided was to show a low murder rate. If you look at other data, the larceny rate in El Paso is very high. You did not supply any legitimacy rate data with your references. All you basically showed is that El Paso has a lower crime rate than cities with a larger black population.

If you believe that the Hispanic population does not have a large number of pathologies, you must have never been to El Paso.

The reason that a franchise selling homepage would be big on El Paso is that the algorithim they used says it is a good place to set up a franchise. What they fail to look at it the large number of business failures that have already occurred there.

Like I said, when you can point out (non-Hispanci) people moving to El Paso for the economic opprotunity, then you can claim that unlimited immigration is a good thing. Yet, when one sees the middle class whites moving away from the border and to other areas, one should be able to figure out that unlimited immigration is hard on quality of life issues.

Posted by: superdestroyer at Apr 4, 2007 11:29:29 AM

I think a lot of people is missing the point here. This must not be a debate on immigration in general. It is about allegedly differences between Hispanic and non-Hispanic immigrants.

Posted by: Julian at Apr 4, 2007 2:40:18 PM

Auburn-Opelika on the above "best city for enterpreneurs" is another data point in Keith's favor. It has become a "best city for enterpreneurs" just as the Hispanic population has increased. The whole place sometimes looks like a boom town out of the history books. Everytime I go back there (usually once or twice a year) to visit there's like 50 new businesses of all kinds.

Posted by: radek at Apr 4, 2007 4:05:07 PM

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