Marginal Revolution: Complements which are local, not global

November
S	M	T	W	Th	F	St
						1
2	3	4	5	6	7	8
9	10	11	12	13	14	15
16	17	18	19	20	21	22
23	24	25	26	27	28	29
30

« Why are women so religious? | Main | Our next President »

Complements which are local, not global

Several of you might have heard of this excellent philosophical time waster before, but it's new to me (apparently it was first devised by Wilfrid Sellars):

Identify three foods A, B, and C such that any two of these are complementary (taste good in combination) but the trio does not. So A and B must be complementary, B and C must be complementary, and A and C must be complementary, but A, B, and C must be foul when combined together. (It's harder than I thought!)

Here are some possible answers. I opt for Coke, Merlot, and Chicken. The pointer is from Ananda Gupta.

Addendum: In the comments, Stephen Dubner nails it.

Posted by Tyler Cowen on March 16, 2007 at 07:04 AM in Food and Drink | Permalink

Comments

me,my ex and her father.

Posted by: sa at Mar 16, 2007 7:44:36 AM

Coke and Merlot? Chicken with either I can see, but Coke and Merlot together I don't. :)

Posted by: billb at Mar 16, 2007 7:51:45 AM

I agree. did Tyler just overlook that?

Posted by: josh at Mar 16, 2007 8:35:05 AM

http://www.foodreference.com/html/artchinesewine.html

"Drinking merlot with coke may revolt a western wine enthusiast, but to a Chinese, sweet and alcoholic means more than fruity and dry. Some even add a few cubes of ice to cool it!"

Posted by: John Goes at Mar 16, 2007 8:43:08 AM

Well, I'll be a monkey's unlce. Although, if they tast good together, I doubt that they would ruin chicken.

Posted by: josh at Mar 16, 2007 8:54:30 AM

Chocolate, cayenne, and orange, perhaps?

Posted by: Grant Gould at Mar 16, 2007 8:58:29 AM

(A) Cranberry sauce; (B) Turkey; (C) Milk. A+B are great; B+C are fine; A+C are lethal.

Posted by: Stephen Dubner at Mar 16, 2007 9:35:27 AM

the problem with Coke, Merlot, and Chicken is that it makes an assumption about quantity. it wouldn't be too sweet if you scale the coke and merlot in the right amounts. If you don't allow quantity balancing, then you could just say brown sugar, white sugar, and nearly any other food, since doubling the optimium amount of sugar will make anything too sweet.

Likewise habanero pepper, naga pepper, and X; sea salt, iodized salt, and X; etc.

Posted by: DK at Mar 16, 2007 9:35:46 AM

peanut butter and bananas= a Graceland delight
peanut butter and Pork= a tasty thai dish (sort of)
pork with banana sauce= actually quite good.
peanut butter, bananas and pork= less than appetizing

Posted by: josh at Mar 16, 2007 10:01:48 AM

Stephen Dubner's answer does not meet the conditions of the problem.

-dk

Posted by: Dick King at Mar 16, 2007 10:42:06 AM

DK is right. Dubner's answer is invalid. And you can talk about Coke and merlot all you want - I'm not buying it.

Posted by: Bernard Yomtov at Mar 16, 2007 10:52:14 AM

DK is right.

What I find interesting, is that the answer is probably more scientific than it appears (there is a limited set of taste buds and textures, and there is probably a limited amount of extreme odors from foods in those conflicting categories - not that it helps me come up with anything, but I would think the new molecular chefs would ahve a field day with this.

Posted by: theCoach at Mar 16, 2007 11:02:30 AM

How about Orange, Cream & Vodka?

Orange & vodka => screwdriver
Orange & Cream => yummy orange-cream thing
Cream & vodka => White Russian

Orange & cream & vodka => yeech

Posted by: liberty at Mar 16, 2007 11:05:35 AM

Re: the update, Dubner doesn't nail it. He doesn't even understand the rules. A and C are supposed to work well together, it's A+B+C that's bad.

Posted by: Brock Landers at Mar 16, 2007 11:07:50 AM

To get an idea of how hard this is, check out the link below and click a bit through the images. They sound weird, but I've eaten most of them, and most of them are delicious. And of course this is just one example of the genre...

http://www.cafeatlantico.com/miniBar/images.htm

Posted by: JW at Mar 16, 2007 11:14:59 AM

A) Lamb
B) Jelly
C) Peanut Butter

A+B - Typical American dish, especially with mint jelly
B+C - Again, typical American sandwich
A+C - A decent thai concoction

A+B+C? Horrible

Posted by: C L at Mar 16, 2007 11:34:48 AM

I had this martini
Orange & cream & vodka
just a week ago. it was delightful.

Posted by: anonymous at Mar 16, 2007 12:00:49 PM

This is the best I can do for now:

Chocolate & Mint - popular dessert combination
Mint & Cumin - popular flavor combination for salads and meat dishes (like meatballs)
Cumin & Chocolate - found in mole` dishes and in spicy hot chocolate, some upscale chocolates

Chocolate & Mint & Cumin - this doesn't sound good to me, but I'm skeptical that some talented chef couldn't make something of it.

In part, a problem with the question is that it does not specify whether the three items are to be considered in combination only with one another or rather if it is permissible to consider them as ingredients in a recipe along with other ingredients.

Posted by: JW at Mar 16, 2007 12:05:30 PM

I'm not sure this can be done.

Posted by: josh at Mar 16, 2007 12:05:40 PM

The other day my wife was drinking tea of lemon, honey and garlic for her cold. I thought it tasted pretty nasty although lemon+honey, honey+garlic and lemon+garlic go well together

Posted by: neil at Mar 16, 2007 12:11:00 PM

Yeah, if orange, cream and vodka is actually good and chocolate, mint & cumin might be good (I would believe that someone on Food Network chef could pull it off) then I bet Lamb & PB & J could also be well done by a good chef. It might indeed be impossible.

Posted by: liberty at Mar 16, 2007 12:13:08 PM

Pickled Ginger, bacon, vanilla ice cream

or,

Green Jello, Entemanns Chocolate Donuts, Scallops.

Posted by: Doug Byrne at Mar 16, 2007 1:00:27 PM

Drugs and sex and rock n' roll.

Posted by: triticale at Mar 16, 2007 1:31:20 PM

I agree that my above comment (9:35 a.m.) didn't meet the conditions of the question. I was just trying to offer a variation (an easier one, to be sure) of the same problem, one that I've found to be extremely memorable. Should have stated explicitly that I was only riffing.

Posted by: Stephen Dubner at Mar 16, 2007 1:37:02 PM

The problem with the Lamb, Peanut Butter, and Jelly answer is that the jelly used in lamb + jelly is not generally the same kind as that used in a PB & J. They are both jellies, but one is generally mint-based, and the other is usually fruit preserves of some kind.

Posted by: Ian at Mar 16, 2007 2:14:50 PM

I can think of the opposite (for me, anyway):

Corned beef? Blech. Saurkraut? Yuck. Rye bread? Whatever.

Reuben? Delightful.

Posted by: Independent George at Mar 16, 2007 2:32:43 PM

Cilantro and Basil: Thai food

Cilantro and Oregano: Mexican food

Basil and Oregano: Italian food

Cilantro, Basil, and Oregano: Yuck

Not sure if this counts because herbs aren't eaten alone.

Posted by: Matthew at Mar 16, 2007 2:53:31 PM

We can do this with co-authors.

Kevin Murphy + Lawrence Katz = 1,120 cites
Lawrence Katz + Alan Krueger = 745 cites
Alan Krueger + David Card = 709 cites

But good luck with Card, Katz, Krueger, and Murphy together.

Posted by: anonymous at Mar 16, 2007 3:26:49 PM

How about

Chile Powder (cayenne if you want to be specific)
Chocolate
Pineapple

Chile+Chocolate - great, spicy Mexican hot chocolate
Chile+Pineapple - good in an Indian fruit salad (chaat style)
Chocolate+Pineapple - decent fondue combination

All three sounds pretty bad, but it might be salvageable.

The best answer to this will probably involve some sort of chemical reaction, I think. (like two slowly reacting nontoxic substances that react very fast with some edible metal catalyst (think gold or silver leaf)).

Posted by: Omkar at Mar 16, 2007 3:32:16 PM

Somebody seems to have beaten me to the chocolate,chili,citrus thing, I should have read a bit more carefully!

Posted by: Omkar at Mar 16, 2007 3:33:30 PM

anonymous - that's 4 objects, not 3. Do it with just Murphy, Katz and Krueger vs. M+K+K.

Posted by: Jason Voorhees at Mar 16, 2007 3:38:48 PM

Omkar, Putting a little cayenne in your sweet chocolates is delicious. A chocolate fondue with a little hot pepper in it would be a fine thing to dip pineapples into. Yum!

Posted by: Cardinal Fang at Mar 16, 2007 4:09:43 PM

Green Jello, Entemanns Chocolate Donuts, Scallops.

???
None of them would mix with any of the others.

Posted by: Peter at Mar 16, 2007 4:28:37 PM

Coke + red wine is a typical drink in Spain called kalimotxo - I believe it has Basque origins. Mix 50% Coke with 50% red wine (we always used cheap red, I'd be hard pressed to say it would make a difference what kind) and enjoy. Delicious under the right circumstances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calimocho

Posted by: Pisco at Mar 16, 2007 5:05:11 PM

Um...

Egg and bacon; egg, sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg, bacon and spam; egg, bacon, sausage and spam; spam, bacon, sausage and spam; spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam; spam, spam, spam, egg and spam; spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam, and spam; or lobster thermidor aux crevettes with a mornay sauce garnished with truffle pate, brandy and a fried egg on top and spam.

Posted by: DVH at Mar 16, 2007 5:21:18 PM

Nitric Acid, Sulphuric Acid & Glycerin.

Nitric Acid & Glycerin = Tart, with a hint of sweetness
Sulphuric Acid & Glycerin = See above.
Nitric Acid & Sulphuric Acid = One hell of a sour bomb

But.. All three are truly an explosive combination.

But then again, maybe Marcel from Top Chef could pull it off.

Posted by: josh reich at Mar 16, 2007 5:23:22 PM

oh poop. Nitroglycerin is used as a vasodilator and in small quantities is quite edible. And according to wikipedia it is now being used in condoms to stimulate erections. Who woulda thunk it?

I vote for DVH's response.

Posted by: josh reich at Mar 16, 2007 5:31:04 PM

pork rinds, and uh, . . . well, um, . . maybe that won't fit anywhere.

Posted by: Ray G at Mar 16, 2007 5:54:13 PM

Rhubarb, Foie, Strawberry:

Foie and Rhubarb = a common preparation
Foie and Strawberry = Also not uncommon
Strawberry + Rhubarb = very nice / common combo

The three together = :-( (although http://www.tasteofireland.com/recipes.rvt/46.html ... it sounds terrible, altogether too overpowering and sweet).

Does Rhubarb, Foie, and Gelatin count: Foie terine (with gelatin) are very nice, but I would not use rhubarb in that preparation.

Posted by: Aesop at Mar 16, 2007 6:18:22 PM

Lobster, egg, rum.

Posted by: fishbane at Mar 16, 2007 8:11:00 PM

Dubner nailed it? Dubner can't read and his "riff" is foolish. I suspect this is what happens when a nerd becomes fashionable. Please be careful Tyler.

Posted by: Surabaya Johnny at Mar 16, 2007 9:31:53 PM

Cheese, PB, and Jelly, from the other link's comments seems to be a good answer.
I'd eat AB, BC and AC, but not ABC.

Posted by: Bill at Mar 16, 2007 10:06:42 PM

I thought of cheese, PB, and jelly, but my fiancee has eaten all of them at once. "It's not so bad."

Posted by: Omkar at Mar 17, 2007 4:00:12 AM

Well no matter what you come up with, someone will have eaten it once and said "it's not so bad". I think on my 9th birthday party I mixed hotdog, bun, ice cream, cake, potato chips, and some candy all together into a paste and said it tasted "good".

Posted by: Bill at Mar 17, 2007 4:19:08 AM

The problem is not well specified.

We are not given units, quantities, nor an objective definition of "tastes good".

I can always make something good taste terrible by forcing you to eat too much of it.

The more general choice problem is this.

Let A, B, and C share some properties from the set Pi.

Let certain combinations of Pi, the Rules, imply a that there is a relationship between A and B. For example, Pi(A) & Pj(B) imply R(A,B). They idea here is that certain properties of A and B in combination are responsible for some relation between A and B, such as tastes good, looks as red as, etc.

Constrain the set of Rules so that R is a symmetric, transitive and reflexive.

The general problem then is:
Can you construct the tri-part Relation R'(A,B,C) from the same Rules, such that R'(A,B,C) is distinct from R(A,B) & R(A,C) & R(B,C), ie R' is a genuine emergent relation.

Posted by: Michael Webster at Mar 17, 2007 10:18:32 AM

Heh, I bet Dubner's feeling some deja-vu after the Freakonomics/ not following the instructions thing.

Posted by: Person at Mar 17, 2007 3:09:19 PM

cabbage mayonnaise ham

Posted by: joan at Mar 17, 2007 6:07:56 PM

Salmon + Butter = grilled salmon. Delicious!
Bagel + Salmon = Delicious bagel with lox
Bagel + Butter = also delicious
But anybody who put butter on their Lox bagel would be considered gauche.

This is particularly easy to do when it involves toppings, as does mine. The simple answer is of course:
Ice cream, chocolate, and strawberries.

Posted by: Model Citizen at Mar 17, 2007 7:14:20 PM

I like chocolate, ice cream and strawberries - what's wrong with that?

Also, was "gauche" a part of the question? Being from the south, I don't have a prob with that as a social issue but, frankly, I only eat smoked salmon under any circumstances anyway.

And why does biscuit, sausage and strawberry jam sound okay
but
biscuit, sausage gravy and strawberry jam sound rather unpleasant?

Posted by: BK at Mar 17, 2007 8:36:03 PM

Also, was "gauche" a part of the question? Being lefthanded, I don't have a prob with that as a social issue.

Posted by: triticale at Mar 17, 2007 11:38:55 PM

candy bar and coke
coke and ice cream
ice cream and candy bar

ice cream, coke, and candy bar = gross

Posted by: aw at Mar 19, 2007 2:40:05 PM

Peanut Butter
Sauteed Chicken
Chocolate

PB + C = Thai chicken, yum.
PB + Chocolate = Reese's, yum.
Chocolate + Chicken = Chicken Mole, yum.

Chocolate Peanut Butter Chicken? Blechh!

Posted by: ModalHubby at Mar 19, 2007 9:42:19 PM

liqingchao 07年8月17日