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Were Nazi jokes funny?

The new comedy about Hitler has doing well at the German box office.  In the world of books, Rudolph Herzog's recent Heil Hitler, das Schwein ist Tot! surveys humor during the Nazi era.

Morally speaking, can Nazi jokes be funny?  More predictively, if we somehow didn't know what the Nazis actually did, might we, counterfactually, find some of their jokes funny?

I have read much of the book, but I've yet to find a good chuckle.  This narrative is typical:

Waehrend der Eingeborenenaufstaende in Deutsch-Ostafrika erlaesst das Kaiserliche Ministerium in Berlin folgende Anweisung an die zustaendigen Stellen: "Die Eingeborenen sind dahingehend zu instruieren, dass sie under Androhung schwerer Strafen jeden Aufstand sechs Wochen vor Ausbruch schriftlich anzumelden haben!"

Translation drains away the "humor," but it uses awkward bureaucratic language to report that "the natives" in East Africa have been told that if they wish to revolt, they must first submit six weeks written notice.  If there is anything vaguely funny about this, it concerns how the German language can formalize even very brutal topics, alternatively a simple German street sign can become ridiculous through long constructions and the use of the passive voice.  But I don't think that was the point of the joke, which I take to be mocking the German bureaucracy.

Moral issues aside, I believe the Nazi jokes are not funny because of their monotone nature, their lack of irony, and the lack of reflective humor behind the putdowns.  A victimized group will be mentioned, and put immediately in a subordinate position, but only rarely is that group the direct butt of the joke.  The oppressed group is there en passant, so to speak.  The resulting incongruity is scary rather than funny and I suspect this would remain the case even if we were not well-informed about what the Nazis did.

Charlie Chaplin's The Great Dictator, while scary, is also funny in parts.  It mocks the ridiculous element in Hitler.  The Nazi jokes have a huge and ridiculous elephant(s) in the room, so to speak, but by refusing to mock those beasts the rest of the joke almost certainly cannot be funny.

The chapter on the Holocaust is of course chilling.

It can be argued that no one should write a book "reselling" and thus profiting from Nazi jokes (or for that matter blogging them).  I take this point of view seriously, though ultimately I believe the story should be told.

The tough part is that good humor is often brutal rather than morally pure, so the question remains what exactly distinguishes funny brutality from unfunny brutality.

Social scientists do not devote enough attention to the phenomenon of humor, and I found this book one of the better places to start.

Here is an article on the book.  Here is a new book on tourism to Nazi Germany.

Posted by Tyler Cowen on January 30, 2007 at 05:11 AM in History | Permalink

Comments

(singing) "Springtime for Hitler in Germany...."

I laughed at the play-within-a-play Nazi jokes in The Producers, but maybe this shows my bad taste. (Mel Brooks isn't really for someone with a refined sense of humor.)

Posted by: albatross at Jan 30, 2007 9:03:23 AM

I think a distinction needs to be made between "jokes that the Nazis made", that is, more-or-less official Nazi humor, versus "jokes about the Nazis". That last category has all the various satires on them from outside, but also contains a lot of underground jokes from inside the country.

I've read a few articles on these over the years. The Nazis, like many a German government, were very fond of acronyms, so there were a lot of vulgur and subversive alternatives for these. Other jokes made fun of the personalities of the regime, not excluding the big one: "Why does Hitler always keep his cap over his crotch when he's reviewing parades? He's protecting Germany's last unemployed."

The obvious comparison is the large stockpile of jokes made under the Soviet regime. Under that kind of selection pressure, humor really acquires a sharp edge.

Posted by: Derek Lowe at Jan 30, 2007 9:09:41 AM

Laughing when your good friend receives a funny insult might be taken to signal your disloyalty. One function of laughing is to tell people where your loyalties lie.

Still, I think that if you found a funny Nazi joke, I'd want to hear it. It's a taboo mental plaything--like the fact that Hitler was nice to animals or his mother. Just make sure you preface the joke with some anti-Nazi, group-loyalty talk so that we can laugh.

As for jokes about Nazis, I like the gay Hitler character that Chris Kitan played on SNL. (Sorry, I can't find it on youtube.)

Posted by: Lee at Jan 30, 2007 9:48:52 AM

"Comedy is tragedy plus time. The night Lincoln was shot, you couldn't joke about it. You just couldn't do it. But now, time has gone by, and now it's fair game. See what I mean? It's tragedy plus time."

Lester, played by Alan Alda, in Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Posted by: Anon at Jan 30, 2007 9:53:42 AM

The only funny remark I recall by a Nazi was from some functionary in Poland, who opined taht if he looked like Himmler, he wouldn't be going on about the Aryan master race quite so much.

(It's quoted in Cameron Watt's How War Came, of which I lack a copy.)

Posted by: Anderson at Jan 30, 2007 10:57:09 AM

This is an excellent example of the reverse Mussolini fallacy. In a nutshell:

- Mussolini made the trains run on time
- Mussolini was bad
- Making the trains run on time is bad

We have the same situation here:

- Nazis laughed at these jokes
- Nazis are bad
- Laughing at these jokes is bad

Since the jokes are apparently not funny, we also have a great example of how fallacious logic may still reach a true conclusion.

But this may also be an example of false premises: DID the Nazis laugh at these jokes? After all, they aren't funny. But then, we have film footage of Nazis laughing at things that are very definitely not funny, so maybe they have some sort of Bizarro-world sense of humor.

Which makes this an even more perfect example of the reverse Mussolini fallacy, since Mussolini did not in fact make the trains run on time at all. It's an old Italian joke that when someone complains about the behavior of their politicians, someone else says "at least he makes the trains run on time," which - as you know if you've taken trains in Italy - is not even remotely true.

So I have to wonder: are these in fact jokes the Nazis told, or did they merely claim they told these jokes as a joke? And if the latter, is THAT funny?

Posted by: Caliban Darklock at Jan 30, 2007 12:14:12 PM

If it is to draw a parallel with Communist era humour, people who have not lived through communism don't find these jokes funny either.

Whenever I tried telling these jokes to my friends they are a bit bewildered and take them far too serious:

i.e. A: How long will Ivan be in jail?
B: For 3 years.
A: What did he do?
B: nothing.
A: For nothing, you get only 2 years in this country"

or Ceausescu going to Japan to brag about his plans for developping Romania. After listening to him the emperor asks: "why didn't you try cianide?"

Conclusion: these jokes tell something about the absurd of the situation in a certain times and speak to those who experience this and are plainly stupid to the others (though, frankly, I don't find the " give a 6 week notice if you want to revolt"-joke that unfunny.)

Posted by: xyz at Jan 30, 2007 12:46:36 PM

As German jokes go (and I mean those told by Germans, rather than about Germans), that's actually a pretty funny one. In general, Germans laugh at:

1) Slapstick. It's unreal how funny they find this. Stephan Raab and his sidekick Elton--Germany's dynamic duo of evening entertainment regularly demonstrate this.

2) Scat jokes. If it's poop, it's funny.

3) Gay jokes. For a country that's really not the least bit homophobic, they get a *lot* of milage from really over-the-top gay stereotypes.

In this light, a self-referential joke about German bureaucracy is positively hilarious.

Basically the German sense of humor is just profoundly different than the Anglo-American one. My wife and I find almost none of the same things entertaining (She's German speaking Swiss and would kill me for associating her with Germans, but sense-of-humor wise, it's a fair association). I like word play, multiple layers of referential humor, irony and juxtaposition. She likes slapstick, including relentless practical jokes.

So from the practical standpoint, I don't think we can use our own sense of humor to judge whether or not these jokes are funny.

Morally, I think laughing at anything that's funny is defensible. It may be an indication of what sort of person you are if you find jokes about torturing people or animals to be funny, but it's also might just be a well told joke.

For instance, some of the retellings of The Joke in "The Aristocrats" detailed some horribly immoral and disgusting acts. But they produced riots of laughter in the theater. Were all the people who laughed immoral?

Posted by: TW Andrews at Jan 30, 2007 2:45:09 PM

Q: What do you get when you cross 1 German and 6 million Jews?
A: 1 German

Posted by: Anonymous at Jan 30, 2007 4:25:36 PM

The lore of Soviet jokes is huge. My formerly Soviet wife
has a huge store of them, but finds she can tell very few of
them to students. They simply do not get them. Also, an
alarming number were ethnic jokes, downright unacceptable in
the US now, unless no one knows or cares about the groups
involved.

Example, requiring explanation, provided here: Armenia is
land locked, and Armenians traditionally do not like their
neighbors the Georgians (still true, they are on opposite
sides of the current pro-versus-anti Russian viewpoint among
post-Soviet republics).

So, "The Armenians demanded a navy from Moscow. Moscow
replies, "why do you need a navy when you are land locked?"
The Armenians reply, "well, the Georgians have a Ministry of
Culture!"

It is widely observed that the quality of jokes in Russia
has gone way down since the end of communism. Most of the
current ones are about New Russians. So,

The New Russian comes into the Mercedes Benz store. He
demands to look at the most expensive vehicle, and then
orders it. The dealer says, "Didn't you just buy one
yesterday?" The New Russian replies, "Yes, but the ashtray
is full already."

I will note also that many of the best old Soviet jokes
involved Lenin, and, well, people now and in the US simply
don't know enough about him to get them...

Posted by: Barkley Rosser at Jan 30, 2007 5:01:25 PM

One thing are jokes about Hitler or Stalin , the people making fun of dictators .Is a way out for frustartion.And other jokes that nazis or communist made about the people.That was missed in many commentaries here.
This one have been told of URSS ,Poland ,Germany and Cuba. A citizen from one of the countries arrives in Germany , the USA or Uk.He is asked
Was the food good?I can not complain.
Was your job good? I can not complain
Was your life good? I can not complain
What are you doing here? I want to complain

Posted by: jcm at Jan 30, 2007 6:35:35 PM

How many Germans does it take to change a lightbulb?

Only one. You unscrew the old one and screw in the new one. It is quite simple, a child could do it. Is this supposed to be some kind of a joke? If so, I fail to see the humor in it.

Posted by: triticale at Jan 30, 2007 8:32:08 PM

The late Petr Beckmann had a good collection of Soviet and Iron Curtain jokes called Hammer and Tickle in its second edition. A lot of them are pretty funny, in a sharp-edged, sad-if-you-think-about-it kind of way.

Posted by: srp at Jan 30, 2007 8:53:56 PM

OK, I can't resist. Stalin, Khrushchev, and Brezhnev are riding together on a train - which suddenly stops, for no good reason, in the middle of nowhere. Time passes, and finally Stalin says: "We should have every fourth worker on this train shot. That'll get the others moving." Khrushchev says: "No, no, comrade Stalin, a new approach is needed. Make them all Heroes of Socialist Labor! They'll be happy and get us going again." So Brezhnev speaks up: "Ah, comrades, you're clearly not up on the latest techniques. I recommend that we close our eyes, rock from side to side, and pretend that we're getting somewhere".

Posted by: Derek Lowe at Jan 30, 2007 10:48:43 PM

A Soviet woman decides to buy a Lada. She goes over and makes her request. They explain the waiting list is very long, but they have an one available in exactly six years. They ask her to return then. She looks at her calendar replies, in the morning, or the afternoon. The salesman says "Comrade, that is six years from now, what difference does it make?" The woman replies "that is the day they deliver my television set".

Posted by: Boris Badinov at Jan 31, 2007 7:53:14 AM

Here's a Henning Wehn joke-

"My grandfather died in a concentration camp.

...He fell out of the guard tower.

...Just kidding. He only broke his leg."

Posted by: Penny at Jan 31, 2007 2:39:23 PM

Derek,

My wife's version of that one has Lenin at first explaining
that one appeals to the revolutionary fervor of the workers.
And the Khrushchev answer is to "tear up the tracks from behind
the train and put them in front of the train." The other two
are approximately the same, definitely a Brezhnev era joke.

Posted by: Barkley Rosser at Jan 31, 2007 6:02:44 PM


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