« Garrison Keillor reviews Bernard Henri-Levy | Main | Markets in everything, supersize edition »
Why don't Asian restaurants have good desserts?
I'll let you all bicker as to whether the stylized fact is true only in the USA, or across the world. I don't know if the following explanation is true, but finally I have heard an explanation which might plausibly be true:
...many traditional desserts require a great deal of work to make, at least when compared to stir-frying some shreds of this and that together. Most restaurateurs are simply unwilling to go to the trouble, particularly since the profit margin on desserts is generally smaller than that on the main dishes. The same phenomenon occurs in other ethnic restaurants. In the old country, desserts and snack foods are made in specialized shops where the volume keeps labor costs down [TC: and freshness up...btw, the emphasis is added].
That is from A. Zee's Swallowing Clouds: A Playful Journey Through Chinese Culture, Language, and Culture. The author also suggests that the Chinese prefer to eat desserts apart from regular mealtimes; for some reason this is supposed to lower the quality of restaurant-based desserts. I prefer the first explanation. Indian sweet shops are fantastic, but U.S.-based Indian restaurants have only so-so desserts. Comments are open, I am eager to hear your opinions...
Posted by Tyler Cowen on January 29, 2006 at 05:22 AM in Food and Drink | Permalink
TrackBack
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d8341c66b253ef00e5508356358833
Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Why don't Asian restaurants have good desserts?:
» Why Asian Desserts Suck in America from Guns and Butter Blog
Here are some reasons why Asian restaurants in the U.S. don't do dessert well in my view, however... As a side note, in Asia, people like to restaurant/bar hop. You might do "round one" at a nice restaurant with colleagues and drinks some beers too. ... [Read More]
Tracked on Jan 31, 2006 2:56:30 AM
» asian desserts from asiapundit
At Marginal Revolution, Tyler Cowen asks a question that has long perplexed AsiaPundit: "Why don't Asian restaurants have good desserts?": I'll let you all bicker as to whether the stylized fact is true only in the USA, or across [Read More]
Tracked on Jan 31, 2006 6:21:41 AM
» asian desserts from asiapundit
At Marginal Revolution, Tyler Cowen asks a question that has long perplexed AsiaPundit: Why don't Asian restaurants have good desserts?: I'll let you all bicker as to whether the stylized fact is true only in the USA, or across [Read More]
Tracked on Jan 31, 2006 6:53:52 AM
» Linklets 1st February from Simon World
Ten famous Chinese sayings you may not have come across. Why you wont be seeing Brokeback Mountain in China. Why dont Asian restaurants have good desserts? Asias discriminating airlines in their selection of stewardesses. The Chinese ar... [Read More]
Tracked on Jan 31, 2006 11:01:26 PM
» Linklets 1st February from Simon World
Ten famous Chinese sayings you may not have come across. Why you wont be seeing Brokeback Mountain in China. Why dont Asian restaurants have good desserts? Asias discriminating airlines in their selection of stewardesses. The Chinese ar... [Read More]
Tracked on Jan 31, 2006 11:05:32 PM
» Linklets 1st February from Simon World
Ten famous Chinese sayings you may not have come across. Why you wont be seeing Brokeback Mountain in China. Why dont Asian restaurants have good desserts? Asias discriminating airlines in their selection of stewardesses. The Chinese ar... [Read More]
Tracked on Jan 31, 2006 11:08:38 PM
» Sucre dans le monde from La Grande Anse
At Marginal Revolution, Tyler Cowen has noticed an interesting culinary trend. Asian restaurants in the United States seem to be lacking in deserts and other sweets. The comments seem to be pointing at a lack of dairy and wheat in Asian cooking, a lack... [Read More]
Tracked on Feb 1, 2006 1:40:41 AM
Comments
Maybe one reason is that mains are often sweet: many restaurants and cafes in Thailand add sugar to their stir-fried meals. Malaysian satay dishes are accompanied by sweet peanut sauce and many chinese sauces are sweet.
Posted by: Ronnie Horesh at Jan 29, 2006 7:01:46 AM
Being of Austro-Hungarian origins, my view is that only the Central Europeans understand dessert. "Mit schlag" (with whipped cream) is a large part of the issue. The further away you get from Vienna, in any direction, the more trouble you are in. What saved the US was the influx of Central Europeans, including their accolytes, the Germans.
Your mileage may vary.
Posted by: Acad Ronin at Jan 29, 2006 8:08:06 AM
I tend to agree with Acad, but I think the key element is that rich cream or butter. The Asian societies with which I am familiar make little use of milk and milk products. The most luscious desserts use a lot of it! Of course, tastes differ, so perhaps a native of Korean or Chinese culture would prefer desserts different from those I like best.
Posted by: Joe Horton at Jan 29, 2006 8:37:09 AM
I think that Acad is close to the mark. I believe that dessert is a European thing and most other countries’ idea of dessert is an acquired taste at best. Actually, desserts are excellent in a band across Europe from France, Switzerland, Austria, and Hungary.
Indians produce some of the best food in the world but most of their desserts would be considered disappointing to Americans and Europeans. Indians love sweets but by western standards they range from so-so to truly disgusting. Many are based on condensed milk and to westerners they just taste odd. Indian confectioners have never learned the art of creating sweets that don’t “sugar” i.e. don’t become granular. This is the confectioner’s art and Europeans insisted on producing confections that don’t sugar. If you grew up with sweets that didn’t sugar, ones that did are going to be disappointing.
Posted by: Michael H. at Jan 29, 2006 9:27:22 AM
European desserts also use a lot of wheat, which isn't a common ingredient in Asian dishes. FWIW, most Asians I know claim they don't eat a lot of sweets...they prefer the salty and tangy to the rich and sweet. At most they cut up some fruit and eat that. Wonder what the relative PPP-adjusted costs for dentistry per person are.
Certainly I'd agree with Acad that there's rarely any problem at a central European ethnic restaurant in the US with regard to finding good desserts. Italian and French, too...and even the Greeks always have Baklava if nothing else.
Posted by: Sandy Smith at Jan 29, 2006 9:35:53 AM
My sister - who lived in Singapore and worked all over South East Asia for 3 years - would agree with Sandy Smith -- and Lord knows she tried to eat a little of absolutely everything on offer!
Posted by: Michael Tinkler at Jan 29, 2006 9:50:44 AM
I have always heard that Mexican restaurants and Chinese restaurants in the U.S. con't have desserts because tables turn over faster without patrons lingering over dessert. I'm not sure why these two restaurant types would value volume over other types of restaurants. Perhaps the margins are smaller in these types of meals.
Posted by: Christine Hurt at Jan 29, 2006 10:16:04 AM
My parents are from the south of China. They never ate dessert. It's an acquired taste.
Posted by: Brian Lim at Jan 29, 2006 10:51:55 AM
We had a running joke in our office of engineers. Being a typical California software company we had maybe 25% native Americans, and 75% people born in other parts of the world. (Our "adventurous lunch crowd" was great ... you would have loved it Tyler, with a guy from the Philippines or a guy from Vietnam or a guy from Oman showing us the best strip-mall food within 20 miles.)
Anyway the joke was Chinese-born people saying "too sweet" or "this desert is excellent, not too sweet." I mention this long story because I'm not that big on sweets (despite being an American of primarily Scandinavian extraction), and often sided with "Asian taste."
Maybe they're just not into it.
Posted by: odograph at Jan 29, 2006 11:34:06 AM
My wife is from China and her mother lives with us. I've noticed that they don't like sweet things in general. American-style desserts and candy are just too intense for them. Also, milk is not used much in Chinese dishes, and they rarely, if ever, bake. Everything is either stir-fried, steamed, boiled/simmered like soup or stewed in a pressure cooker.
Posted by: Derek Scruggs at Jan 29, 2006 12:17:01 PM
Fried Banana says this discussion is off base. Perhaps the Asian dessert void is an American phenomenon. Toronto has an abundance of Thai, Vietnamese and Chinese restaurants (and specialty bakeries) and many have sweets there for the taking whether tapioca, sesame paste balls, bubble tea or durian ice.
Desserts from Europe are just as much an acquired taste as those from Asia. I've heard numerous complaints about European grainy icing and the preferences of Euro "cake eaters."
Posted by: J Tompkins at Jan 29, 2006 12:17:40 PM
A lot of traditional Chinese sweets are sort of gelatin-like and are made with rice flour. These are not particularly popular with the American palate as far as I can tell, and they are generally not served in restaurants.
My experience with Indian sweets in the U.S. is that they simply don't lend themselves to canning, and few Indian restaurants are inclined to prepare them themselves. However, in India, they're rarely served in restaurants as well; most restaurant dessers are pre-packaged ice creams or things like creme caramel. Indian sweets are fantastic, but there simply isn't enough of a market for sweet shops in the U.S. to make good Indian sweets readily available.
Posted by: Lee at Jan 29, 2006 12:23:38 PM
I lived in Japan a few years and saw that dessert is very popular there, but has nothing to do with meals. Whether you eat at home, a restaurant, or other outing, there is no notion of having a post-meal dessert. I would also guess that European style desserts are more popular than traditional ones, with specialty shops and bakeries being almost as frequent as convenient stores, even in the countryside.
Posted by: Don Draper at Jan 29, 2006 12:36:23 PM
I think that there are multiple things going on here. First of all, Ronnie pointed out that a lot of Thai stir-fry is sweetened; the same is true for most Japanese food as well. Violations of the Western sweet-salty rule (i.e. pick one, not both) abound in Asia. Add to that the historical unavailability of refined sugar, chocolate, dairy products, and wheat, and we end up with Asian desserts that taste strange to Western palates. Likewise, the sweet component of the main dishes makes them difficult to pair with wine. OTOH, beer and sushi are a good combo.
I'll also have to agree with the mid-European superiority in all matters sweet. The first time I ever had real whipped cream was when I visited some elderly relatives south of Vienna. My rule of thumb is that if the coffee's good (Europe south of Munich or Paris, Latin America, some of the US), complex desserts are probably good too. Otherwise (say, in the Nescafe belt of Europe or in east Asia), forget it, and have some tea or ice cream. Or, in the case of Japan, tea-flavored ice cream. Avoid the insanely sweet chocolates; they're even worse than their British counterparts.
Posted by: Chris R at Jan 29, 2006 1:55:54 PM
Maybe it is due to the poor business practices from which too many Asian restaurants suffer. Desserts in the US are sold and middle of the road and upper class restaurants using presentation (the desert tray) and the server encouraging the sale. At the average asian restaurant, the server has no clue how to make a sale and cannot make suggetions that lead to things like eating dessert.
Posted by: superdestroyer at Jan 29, 2006 2:55:48 PM
It can't be that the cost of preparing deserts is too high because very few asian restaurants offer even pre-prepared deserts (ice cream? OK. Some have Green Tea or Red Bean Ice Cream, but that proves the point). Many many restaurants get their deserts from local bakeries. Why don't (US) Asian restaurants do that too? It remains a mystery. Along with why McDonalds won't serve McOnion Rings. I'd kill for McOnion rings.
Posted by: Matt Rochlin at Jan 29, 2006 3:40:06 PM
Regarding deserts generally, rather than any particular culture's:
Seems like preferences that rank sugars low are better. I wonder what biology says -- when you give sweets to a kid who's never been exposed to sweets, does he like them right off the bat?
Posted by: Jeff Brown at Jan 29, 2006 4:39:27 PM
Indian restaurants don't serve good desserts? Nonsense! I'll take a ras malai or kulfi over an overly sweet "western" dessert any day!
Posted by: Peter at Jan 29, 2006 4:45:48 PM
Wouldn't the high level of lactose intolerance in Asians have something to do with this? After all, most of our desserts involve the use of dairy products.
Posted by: Bernard Yomtov at Jan 29, 2006 5:25:37 PM
Tyler,
Surely, you've been to Samadhi Sweets in Bailey's Crossroads?
Posted by: Melanie at Jan 29, 2006 5:26:22 PM
Jeff, Babies are born liking sweet things. Breast milk is very sweet.
Posted by: Cardinal Fang at Jan 29, 2006 5:49:58 PM
Michael H and others,
I think the Indian sweets you refer to are the usual suspects, but keep in mind that Indian food is extremely diverse and what you see in an Indian restaurant in the US represents less than 1/10th of the diversity of Indian food and dessert. So, the dessert from the souther state of Kerala is very different from dessert from Kashmir.
If you're ever in New York, go to "Babu" and try the dessert there, for instance, and then tell me you don't like Indian dessert :)
Cheers,
An Indian lover of central european dessert :)
Posted by: Reuben at Jan 29, 2006 6:10:50 PM
Michael H and others,
I think the Indian sweets you refer to are the usual suspects, but keep in mind that Indian food is extremely diverse and what you see in an Indian restaurant in the US represents less than 1/10th of the diversity of Indian food and desserts. So, dessert from the southern state of Kerala is very different from Kashmiri or Bengali desserts.
If you're ever in New York, go to "Babu" and try the dessert there, for instance, and then tell me you don't like Indian sweets :)
Cheers,
An Indian who LOVES Central European dessert
Posted by: Reuben at Jan 29, 2006 6:12:53 PM
What about the historical effect of europe having several centuries of access to cheap suguar from its colonies to spur the development of deserts which take advantage of this?
Posted by: yoyo at Jan 29, 2006 9:05:14 PM
I know that in Japan sweets are not often a part of the meal. Instead they are often taken with tea separetly.
I think this might just be something that develops in countries with tea ceremonies i.e the UK, and Japan.
Posted by: Tyler H at Jan 29, 2006 10:09:21 PM
